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Author Topic:   Why does evolutionary science seem to be
Silent H
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 13 of 107 (82439)
02-03-2004 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by q3psycho
02-03-2004 12:32 AM


quote:
the over-all politcal agenda of secular humanism. It is grounded in immorality and vice. Particularly with the sodomites.
I am unaware of the immoral and vice foundations of secular humanism. Perhaps you can open a new thread and explain this to me.
It appears that there are many gays (aka sodomites) that are Xian and Jewish and trying to gain greater connections to and acceptance from religious faith, rather than by appealing to secular humanism.
quote:
Immoral behavior always hides behind a shroud of dignity (like "science").
What does the Theory of Evolution have to do with immoral behavior? As many on these forums have stated, you can be a Xian and still believe in the ToE. And you can certainly have whatever faith/moral beliefs you choose. Science dispells none of that.
The only problems pop up if you have a religion that has a creation story which MUST be taken literally, and happens to conflict with available evidence.
Did heliocentric theory lead to greater immorality? Or should we begin to oppress it again, since it is counter to Biblical scripture, and thus must be overturning God?
I will be honest, I am an Agnostic-Atheist (pretty much a secular humanist), and even if I were to go with a religion it would be more or less Eastern/Pagan. But my belief system had no help from science, and I can't figure how I could use science to convince others that they should not have faith in their religion.
That would take quite a bit of data that I have no access to.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by q3psycho, posted 02-03-2004 12:32 AM q3psycho has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 20 of 107 (82774)
02-03-2004 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by q3psycho
02-03-2004 1:40 AM


Q3PSYCHO... Just to let you know you should hit the reply button at the bottom of an individual post, and not the one at the bottom of the page. That way the person you are responding to knows they have gotten a reply.
quote:
I don't know what the heliocentric view is
This is the belief that the earth orbits the sun. Many centuries ago that was the source of the same kind of debates we are having now on evo/creo.
According to a literal interpretation of the Bible, the sun goes around the earth. In fact, everything goes around the earth. The earth is at the center of the Universe.
People at the time felt that if this was proven wrong and that the earth was thought NOT to be the center of the Universe then the Bible was proven wrong, and so all of the Xian religion.
Now I assume you have no problem dealing with the earth orbiting the sun. If you do, then I guess there's not much for me to say.
However if you don't have a problem with that, it is because you have grown up accepting, like most Xians, that the Bible doesn't have to be literally true in every case. And in that particular case, the sun going aroung the earth is just not that important.
Well, while Xians eventually got over that shock and accepted the earth going around the sun, eventually there came another inconsistency. It is what we are facing now: Evolution.
Now you can look at the past and say, okay maybe evolution is like heliocentric theory... that part of the Bible is not literally true... and move on.
Or you can say... despite already accepting some of the Bible is not literally true... for some reason how God created life MUST be LITERALLY true, or Xianity is dead.
That is to repeat the error of the past and for what reason/profit I have no idea.
quote:
Don't you think that the moral decay of sosciety is in part due to falling away from the Bible? Isn't that what evolution has done?
No, and no.
Evolution says nothing about whether you should follow the moral teachings of the Bible or not, so no it has no bearing on the Bible or morality.
Also, and this is another topic for another thread, I don't believe that society is falling apart at all, much less because people are less religious. If anything, I feel there is a rise in religious bigotry that is causing problems worldwide. Not that people who are religious MUST be bigoted, but that many are approaching their religion this way.
Most of the violence commited in the US and around the world has been inspired by religious fanaticism (including Xian fanaticism), and not by hedonists trying to have a good time.
The current attempt by Xian fundies to purge evolution from science and replace its methodology with Intelligent Design or Creationist science is part of the problem.
By the way, why... if you feel there is such a problem with morality in the world... did you choose the nic "psycho"?
[This message has been edited by holmes, 02-03-2004]

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by q3psycho, posted 02-03-2004 1:40 AM q3psycho has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by q3psycho, posted 02-03-2004 6:56 PM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 6136 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 23 of 107 (82807)
02-03-2004 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by q3psycho
02-03-2004 6:56 PM


quote:
I would say the most violent thing is murder and we are murdering babies without the slightest care in this society. The only people I see speaking out about that are religious people.
That could be because it takes a religious... and a particular religious... view point to view a fertilized egg, or a gestating embryo, as the equivalent of a full grown human being.
Evolution says nothing about this. You'll have to take it up with embryology, and those that study physical development. Particularly you'll have to ask them why they have not found what time a "soul" enters the embryo.
quote:
I do not condone killing abortion doctors. We just need to change the law and start respecting life again.
We are moving into a totally different topic at this point. But I must point out you are for making laws that will charge doctors with murder. Do you believe in the death penalty? If so, then you condone killing abortion doctors.
I will also point out that one can respect life better by allowing the living to make choices with respect to their life and health, especially at early stages before the growing being is even viable, rather than treating the guaranteed living as mere incubators for the unborn.
quote:
I didn't think that the bible said the sun revolved around the earth... If you could prove evolution was true then you would have to accept it.
It does (though in slightly longer winded terms), we have (to nearly the same degree that we know the earth goes around the sun).
Time to start accepting evolution.
(edited in: if you want to see how this has all been done before with heliocentrism, start reading up on Galileo and heliocentric theory. Interestingly, I think it was just a few years back that the Catholic church finally apologized for threatening to kill him.)
quote:
Why did I choose psycho? Because I like psychology.
It's Psych-ology, not Psycho-logy. If you persist in your nomenclature people may think the patients have truly taken over the asylum.
[This message has been edited by holmes, 02-03-2004]

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by q3psycho, posted 02-03-2004 6:56 PM q3psycho has not replied

  
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