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Author Topic:   Diversification: Random Walk or Biological Determinism?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member

Message 28 of 35 (488808)
11-17-2008 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Fosdick
11-17-2008 8:10 PM

Re: An ab initio Reducto ad Diversito.
Yes, erosion has a random component, but it also has a deterministic component due to the environment in which the erosion occurs.
But that is not really what determinism is. What you are speaking of is only mechanical, like a river carving out a gorge. The river has no determinism to do that, and neither does gravity.
Isn't that how he's using the word "deterministic", then?
AIG writes:
You are making the mistake so commonly found in creationist diatribes: If something is partly random, then it must be completely random. They accept the randomness of mutations but ignore the deterministic aspect of natural selection.
Ah, I didn't know there was one”the orange one. If natural selection is deterministic then you are saying that a population is predisposed one way or another to "differential reproductive success amongst individuals across the population" (E. O. Wilson et al.) THAT is all that NS really is. It's not some Selector who is out to pick His favorites. Perhaps you are a closet Creatin (just kidding).
I think if you use your "mechanical definition" rather than the "predisposed" one, then you'll be more on to his point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Fosdick, posted 11-17-2008 8:10 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Fosdick, posted 11-18-2008 10:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member

Message 32 of 35 (488840)
11-18-2008 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Fosdick
11-18-2008 10:48 AM

Re: An ab initio Reducto ad Diversito.
So, CS, should I put you down as one who thinks biological diversification is a random walk?
I can't answer that with a yes/no....
I don't think Random Mutation necessitates diversification, but it could be an inevitability given non-negetive selective pressure. I don't really know for sure.
I think that Natural Selection would be the driving force to diversitfication. An evironment sutiable for diversity will bread diversity and one that isn't, won't. One that's rather hostile would reduce diversity, obviously.
So, is biological diversity random.... I guess when you boil it down, it has to have some random component from the mutations, but then the environmnet determines (in that mechanical sense) whether or not the diversity will increase.

So, you see the acronym FTW around a lot and it stand for: "For The Win" For example, after seen some pics posted, someone might post:
#3 FTW
Indicating they think #3 was the best.
Anyways, I see your "FTF" on there and I'm thinking:
What!? Does that mean "For The Fail"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Fosdick, posted 11-18-2008 10:48 AM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Fosdick, posted 11-18-2008 1:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 34 by straightree, posted 11-20-2008 6:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 35 by Fosdick, posted 11-20-2008 7:41 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

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