Evolution of "light"

Huh?Sarcasm aside, I would like you to elaborate a bit. If you know the answer please share it.

Hi MessenjaH,If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the discussion perhaps you could just lurk for a while.------------------

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

don't know if this discussion is still going, but just one or two notes...
The fundamental interactions of particles are: gravity, electromagnetism, weak and strong interaction. Electromagnetic and weak interaction are thought to be the same interaction as recent experiments indicate (similar to the fact that electric and magnetic forces are the same ... not the best analogy, I know). It is quite possible that the strong interaction and the electroweak interaction are related in much the same way (I honestly do not know if there has been experimental evidence to this yet). The next generation of particle accelerators (large hadron colliders) will probably shed some more light into this.. If anybody has fit gravity into this picture yet, escapes me.to wise: I think some clarification on your part is needed: When you say light, is it visible electromagnetic radiation you are meaning? or electromagnetic radiation in general? Or are you saying electromagnetic interactions in general?
If it is one of the first two you will have to clarify as to how evolution (or indeed life) is rendered impossible by the absence of electromagnetic radiation (whatever wavelength), however improbable the (total) absence of electromagnetic waves is ..
If it is the latter your point is moot, as evolution explains the biological development of lifeforms in our universe...As stated, light did not evolve in any way biological lifeforms do, but is just the property of nature that matter will under certain conditions "loose" energy in the form of photons...best regards

Awinkisis----The beauty of science is that it can say "I don't know yet". Just because science cannot precisely say how light came into existence doesn't mean that God did it. There are plenty of other physical properties for which we have not come up with origins for (ex. gravity, time, etc.). For millennia religion has been saying that God was responsible for this and that but eventually Science found more plausible and useful explanations. The unknown is just that. Given enough time science will come up with substantial and useful explanations for most phenomena.Wise----Oh, what the heck. I can't resist !Awinkisis:Will Science ever understand EVERYTHING there is to know in the universe? A yes or no answer would be sufficient.I would submit to you that man does NOT have the brain capacity to understand all things, for that matter, things within ones own backyard are still very confusing.If man cannot understand that WHICH HE SEES, then how can he understand that WHICH HE CANNOT SEE? I.E. a god?Wise

Coraqyps---No, the Genesis account has some preexisting person speaking light into being. There is no evidence for anything preexisting the Big BangWise---But you just suggested, "light happened". If you believbe this then Science and the Biblical account have just been reconciled on this particular account.Bible---God said "let there be light" and there was light.Science---*poof* and there was light.In both cases, light "just happened". Right?Now, I will ask you and other evolutionists another difficult question:Please describe to me and all here the evolution of the four chambered heart. [Please, no replies to this in this thread as it is off topic. I have asked Wise to open a new thread for this topic, but if you wish to reply to this and he hasn't opened a new thread yet, then please feel free to open it yourself. --Admin]One rule:No, "could haves", "might haves", "may haves" or other such statements of 'faith'. I would like pure Science and facts.Please begin......Wise[This message has been edited by Admin, 09-02-2003]

Hi Wise, Please open new threads for new topics. This thread should stay focused on the original subject of the evolution of "light".------------------

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Wise,
(What synaptic misfiring made you come up with that name?)Something tells me you are not interested at all in the answers to your specific questions. If you are presented with answers, you flatly ignore them and ask the question again, or ask a different question altogether. You present no real argument and your style of debating (if it can be called 'debating' at all) is pretty insufferable, with your "Please begin..." every time.I think the only thing you are interested in is another "won challenge" to add to your undoubtedly long list. The rest of us here are more interested in intelligent debate and exchange of knowledge and viewpoints. If you have something useful to add, please do. If not, please keep yourself in check.------------------
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas N. Adams

Um, not really. In the Genesis account, God adds light to the universe after the fact.In reality, light is a fundamental force of the universe. It's as old as the universe. (Also there's no god - thought I'd throw that in just to tweak you.)So no, they don't agree.

Why the hell do you think that is a response?------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Will Science ever understand EVERYTHING there is to know in the universe? A yes or no answer would be sufficient.

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A yes or no answer would not be sufficient. For instance we know that atoms are made of electrons, protons and neutrons which are in turn made of quarks which in turn are theorized to be made of superstrings. The subdivisions may go on infinitely. We may never know.

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I would submit to you that man does NOT have the brain capacity to understand all things, for that matter, things within ones own backyard are still very confusing.

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A single man may not have the capacity to understand all things but the collective knowledge of mankind may.

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If man cannot understand that WHICH HE SEES, then how can he understand that WHICH HE CANNOT SEE? I.E. a god?

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There are many things that man cannot see. No one has ever seen a quark but we know they exist by the evidential trails that they leave. And we know some of their properties. Our knowledge is increasing at an exponential rate. Mathematics shows that an exponentially increasing function never reaches infinity, but it comes close.Just because we don't understand something now doesn't mean that we won't in the future. If we were to attribute everything we don't know now to a god then we can stop all the research and sit back secure in the knowledge that we have an answer to all the questions ... God did it!

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So then light "just happened"...kind of like the Genesis account?

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Kinda like Genesis? Kinda like a hundred myths, actually.But if you read Genesis, you'll notice that light is several steps down the line. You actually start out with earth and water-- curiously similar to other mesopotamian myths. These are your primal forces.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Be careful when applying colloquial definitions to science.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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I wonder why.

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Because we can't fall back onto something nomadic goat-herders made up 3000 years ago. That appears to be how you work. No offense intended, honestly. Science doesn't work that way. Scientists look at what we can observe and try to determine how things work. Think of it like a criminal investigation. You see the body and you have a murder scene but you don't know how the murder was committed or who committed it. You analyze the body and the murder scene and try to infer more details-- who, when, why, etc. You might be able to solve the crime, or you might not; but not solving it does not change the fact that you have a body. Nor does pulling a name out of thin air solve the crime. This is what you do when you say "We don't know so God did it." You pull a name out of thin air and call the case solved. Sorry. It doesn't work that way.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Wise:What color are the tentacles which are growing out of your back? If you are unable to answer a simple question about color, you are obviously unqualified to speak about light. All color comes from light, are you aware of that?Please answer this question, without any diversionary tactics such as "there are no tentacles growing out of my back."I want to know what color they are. I believe you will not be able to answer and I am ALWAYS right about what I believe.------------------
Ms. Krabappal:Are there any more questions?
Bart:Yes, how would I go about making a half man half monkey creature?
Krabapal:I'm sorry Bart, that would be playing God.
Bart:God schmod! I want my monkey man![This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 09-02-2003]

Does "Wise"'s attitude remind anyone else of the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail ?