Evolution of "light"

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Hi MessenjaH,

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If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the discussion perhaps you could just lurk for a while.

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-- Percy
EvC Forum Administrator

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I haven't bothered to skim the entire (dubious) thread, but I will comment on the above quoted.I think that MessenjaH's messages in question could well be interpreted as violations of Forum Rule 2 - "Dabate in good faith by addressing rebuttals through the introduction of new information...".But perhaps we need a general "anti-blather" forum rule.In e-mail communications with Admin, I have expressed concern about the volume of messages being posted by Crashfrog. While some of these are indeed very fine (Post of the Month level) messages, a lot are what I file under the term of "trite" or "blather". In his six month presence, the frogster has already become one of the top-ten (in count) message posters. I think that at least some of the others of that "top-ten" list might also consider activating their own personal "anti-blather" filter.Please take further discussion of this matter, to the appropriate topic - one of the links supplied below.Adminnemooseus------------------
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I think I can say that this topic has no use at all.
It doesn't matter where light came from! It doesn't disprove Evolution as Evolution only goes for living things and it doesn't prove the Bible or any other religion. so I think that is pretty much it. I think the reason this was asked is Because I think he assumes all evolutionists are Atheist which is not true.[This message has been edited by DC85, 09-02-2003]

Awinkisis----There are many things that man cannot see. No one has ever seen a quark but we know they exist by the evidential trails that they leave. And we know some of their properties. Our knowledge is increasing at an exponential rate. Mathematics shows that an exponentially increasing function never reaches infinity, but it comes close.Just because we don't understand something now doesn't mean that we won't in the future. If we were to attribute everything we don't know now to a god then we can stop all the research and sit back secure in the knowledge that we have an answer to all the questions ... God did it!Wise----So then, Are you saying that man will one day understand the entire universe?I'll save you the trouble.IT WON'T HAPPEN.Why? Man does not have the capacity for it.Simple things like peanuts, as discovered by George Washington Carver, contain HOSTS of discoveries, and you think you can understand the universe? HAW !!I could show you a picture of the Carina and ask you to explain it, where it came from, what it is, how it evolved, its chemical makeup, and could you?Nope.Why?Because you do not, nor will you ever have the capacity for it. It is really THAT simple.WiseBesides that, what makes you think mans knowledge is increasing so much with such low SAT scores?

DAN CAROLL----What color are the tentacles which are growing out of your back? If you are unable to answer a simple question about color, you are obviously unqualified to speak about light. All color comes from light, are you aware of that?Please answer this question, without any diversionary tactics such as "there are no tentacles growing out of my back."I want to know what color they are. I believe you will not be able to answer and I am ALWAYS right about what I believe.Wise---Then perhaps you can en"light"en us and explain the evolvement of colors, spectrum by spectrum.Wise

Parasomnium----Something tells me you are not interested at all in the answers to your specific questions. If you are presented with answers, you flatly ignore them and ask the question again, or ask a different question altogether. You present no real argument and your style of debating (if it can be called 'debating' at all) is pretty insufferable, with your "Please begin..." every time.I think the only thing you are interested in is another "won challenge" to add to your undoubtedly long list. The rest of us here are more interested in intelligent debate and exchange of knowledge and viewpoints. If you have something useful to add, please do. If not, please keep yourself in check.Wise----What answers?I haven't seen any. Look...it is up to the evolutionists to explain the evolution of light. My belief in its creation is based upon "faith" which requires NO explanation.From a Scientists, or evolutionists point of view light and its creation, or evolvement MUST be explained.Care to have a crack at it?Wise

ALEX----to wise: I think some clarification on your part is needed: When you say light, is it visible electromagnetic radiation you are meaning? or electromagnetic radiation in general? Or are you saying electromagnetic interactions in general?
If it is one of the first two you will have to clarify as to how evolution (or indeed life) is rendered impossible by the absence of electromagnetic radiation (whatever wavelength), however improbable the (total) absence of electromagnetic waves is ..
If it is the latter your point is moot, as evolution explains the biological development of lifeforms in our universe...As stated, light did not evolve in any way biological lifeforms do, but is just the property of nature that matter will under certain conditions "loose" energy in the form of photons...best regardsWise----O.K....then if light did not evolve, then are you saying it "just happened"...like the Biblical account?Wise

CRASHFROG---Um, not really. In the Genesis account, God adds light to the universe after the fact.In reality, light is a fundamental force of the universe. It's as old as the universe. (Also there's no god - thought I'd throw that in just to tweak you.)So no, they don't agree.Wise---Adds light after what fact?Your idea of "instantanious" creation of light rather than evolvement is in line with the BIBLICAL ACCOUNT. otherwise EXPLAIN ITS EVOLUTION and birth.Wise

You try to have an intelligent repartee with someone and they go and bring up peanuts! I swear this came right out of left field. Please, enlighten me on the mysteries of the noble peanut.As for the Carina, are you referring to the constellation or the bay in St. Croix? How can you be so certain? What is man's capacity? When should mankind throw in the towel and say "That's it ... we can't learn anymore" How do you know that? Some facts to back up your statements would be appreciated.As for the SAT's, you have failed to grasp the difference between knowledge and intelligence.

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So then, Are you saying that man will one day understand the entire universe?

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I'll save you the trouble.

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IT WON'T HAPPEN.

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Why? Man does not have the capacity for it.

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You can't possibly know this.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Wise....Why the heck do you think Light must have evolved? Evolution only applies to living things. Don't you see how stupid your question is?It's like asking "how do rocks run?" or "how do trees speak?", it's a nonsensical question. Now, you can easely ask were did light come from, or the universe for that matter, and guess what, you may actually be on to something!Because, we simply don't know. Sure we have theories that explain the universes inseption like the Big Bang, but it has yet to account for what is beyond the universe, or it's purpose for being (if indeed it has one). And the theory is largly speculative. So sure, maybe God is at the end of it after all! But we don't know... YET.In any case, we do know things evolve, and from that knowledge we can estimate the earths age, and the timespan of biology uppon it's surface.So, now do you see why your question dosn't make sense?Now... before you go restating it, can I ask you to bring me a sourcee, a webpage, a quote from a book, etc. that states that evolution must acount for phisical principals such as light, gravity, etc. Because evolution has never proported to be involved in these phenomena, it is strictly a principle of living matter.Now... I know you think somehow light must be present for life to exist, so pelase don't restate this. It is an irelivant point, and a dubius one at that since there is life that dosn't depend on light. Please answer why you think, life must have evolved for evolution to be true. Sources please!So please, bring us the evolutionist why stated light eveolved.[This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-02-2003]

After the universe. See, God moves over the waters at the beginning, right? Before he creates light? How can there be water if there's no universe? There can't, so we know that the Biblical accounts says that first comes the universe, then water, then light.But the cosmological model says that the universe comes first, light at the same time (since it's a fundamental force in the universe), and water after millions of years.Clearly the accounts don't agree. The order is wrong. What's hard to understand about that?

What, yours? That's hardly mankind's fault.

Awinkisas---You try to have an intelligent repartee with someone and they go and bring up peanuts! I swear this came right out of left field. Please, enlighten me on the mysteries of the noble peanut.Wise---Perhaps you would be better served to enlighten yourself ? Haven't you ever heard the TRUE story about George Washington Carver?Let me enlighten you:It has been said that george Washington carver, as a young Scientist, one day, asked God..."show me the secrets of the universe"...
Young George heard Gods reply to him..."Son, I could never show you the secrets of the universe because you would NEVER be able to handle it, but I WILL show you the secrets of the peanut..BEGIN to tear it apart" .At that young George began to tear apart the peanut, and with that, medicines, soaps and hundreds of other uses emerged from the peanut.READ you Science book GIRL !Awinkisis----As for the Carina, are you referring to the constellation or the bay in St. Croix?Wise---The Nebulaunwise writes:IT WON'T HAPPEN.
Why? Man does not have the capacity for it.Awinkisis----How can you be so certain? What is man's capacity? When should mankind throw in the towel and say "That's it ... we can't learn anymore"Wise----Mans capacity is about 2% of brain usage. Some liberal estimates have it at 10%. You DON'T have the capacity.Again, what makes you think man will learn everything in the universe? Will you one day stand upon distant planets and study its soil and atmosphere? Will you study distant stars at close range? Will you enter a blackhole? HAW !! You BETTER get that enterprize built if you want to study the far reaches of the Universe! Our own galaxy is beyond your knowledge and comprehension ! You WILL NEVER know everything about it...NEVER !Now really, in all your foolishness, can you now say that man will understand ALL someday? HHMMMM?unwise writes:Because you do not, nor will you ever have the capacity for it. It is really THAT simple.Awinkisis---How do you know that? Some facts to back up your statements would be appreciated.Wise----Facts !? FACTS, you say !!?? I just gave you several above. Please explain the universe to me ? Starting with our solar system and expanding to the edge of our Milky Way.Awinkisis---As for the SAT's, you have failed to grasp the difference between knowledge and intelligence.Wise----Does knowledge come from intelligence?Wise

JOHN----You can't possibly know this.Wise---OF COURSE , I know it. You evolutionists are so far removed from reality that you cannot see it.
Again, will you stand on distant planets some day far BEYOND our galaxy? How can you EVEN THINK that you will know everything? You are standing on planet earth RIGHT NOW and you STILL don't know everything about it!
And we haven't even been to Mars yet!Man WILL NEVER know everything about the universe...NEVER.I am a realist, NOT a dreamer.Wise

CRASHFROG----What, yours? That's hardly mankind's faultWise----Yeah right....blame it on Clinton.Wise