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Author Topic:   More Evidence of Evolution - Geomyidae and Geomydoecus
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5894 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 63 of 96 (389157)
03-11-2007 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Fosdick
03-10-2007 8:31 PM


Re: Is it the word "random"?
What’s this? Natural selection "selects individuals”? Do you actually believe that natural selection operates at the level of the individual? I don’t know of any credible biologist who thinks natural selection selects individuals.
Well, I'm not a credible biologist . However, I DO understand that selection must, by definition, operate at the level of the individual organism. After all, it's the organism that reproduces (or not). Evolution, on the other hand, operates at the level of a population. I would have thought that would be obvious (and no, this is REALLY not the thread to get into the pros and cons of group selection theory).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Fosdick, posted 03-10-2007 8:31 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Fosdick, posted 03-11-2007 1:10 PM Quetzal has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5894 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 66 of 96 (389165)
03-11-2007 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Fosdick
03-11-2007 1:10 PM


Re: Is it the word "random"?
I know crashfrog will be bent out of shape because we’re not taking about his mice and lice and parallel convergences. So maybe another thread is needed to discuss the question ”What exactly is natural selection and precisely where does it occur?’
Yep. My admin alter ego is already yammering at me for posting the last bit off topic. I don't have huge amounts of time, but if you'd care to start a new topic and define the parameters of the discussion as you've framed them here, I'll be happy to join in.

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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5894 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 67 of 96 (389166)
03-11-2007 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by crashfrog
03-11-2007 10:55 AM


Nomogenesis - An Aside
I don't know what "nomogenesis" is...
This is one of Martin's pet arguments (and is one of the bases for Davison's, erm, strange views). Nomogenesis is a theory of directed evolution that was first (or most loudly) propounded by Lev Berg in the 1920's in a book of the same name. It is basically a form of biological determinism (sort of "clockwork evolution" - a very mechanistic viewpoint) derived from 19th Century views of orthogenesis - which in turn was more or less the last gasp of the midieval escala naturae. The basic idea is that nature (writ large) is driving toward a set goal or purpose, and that evolution continues toward perfection driven by a set of obscure natural "laws". I don't think Berg had any supernatural component, however.

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