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Author Topic:   front loading: did evos get it backwards
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5736 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 82 of 164 (472309)
06-21-2008 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Force
06-21-2008 5:24 PM


Re: Neanderthals & sapiens
Just because we carry the same Foxp2 gene, it doesn't mean that Neandarthals directly evolved into Humans.
For one, there is evidence of Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens Sapiens living together, and perhaps even mating together. If HN. evolved into HSS., then neither could be extant alongside the other. Populations evolve, not individuals, and if HN. evolved directly into modern humans, then by the time we came to be, HN. would not exist as a species.
The only explanation, and the most logical one at that, is that the Foxp2 is a shared derived characteristic of both species. Both species evolved from a single common ancestor which also had the same gene.

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 Message 80 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 5:24 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 5:48 PM Organicmachination has replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5736 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 84 of 164 (472314)
06-21-2008 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Force
06-21-2008 5:48 PM


Re: Neanderthals & sapiens
but it is evidence that we are the same species.
Mice and Humans share the same Stra8 gene. Are mice and humans the same species?
if the evolution started 200,000 - 300,000 years earlier that is not true. I would actually expect if evolution occured that they would rival each other hence natural selection.
Yes, you can argue that. Doesn't make it more probable. From current science, we see that both neanderthals and we evolved from a common ancestor, as elucidated by coyote.

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 Message 83 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 5:48 PM Force has replied

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 Message 85 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 5:56 PM Organicmachination has replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5736 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 87 of 164 (472318)
06-21-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Force
06-21-2008 5:56 PM


Re: Neanderthals & sapiens
Just so you know, mice also have the Foxp2 gene.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 5:56 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 6:07 PM Organicmachination has replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5736 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 89 of 164 (472323)
06-21-2008 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Force
06-21-2008 6:07 PM


Re: Neanderthals & sapiens
So you're saying that the Foxp2 gene in neanderthals and humans was exactly the same, down to every last amino acid, loci on the genome, effect, and epigenetic properties?
Can you quote any sources to prove it to me?
Also, look at this link:
Foxp2 - Protein - NCBI
Either way, even if both the species had the same gene exactly, it still wouldn't prove we're the same species. It would simply prove that the gene diverged without mutation and was conserved as humans and neanderthals evolved from an ancestral species.
This shows the Foxp2 genes and haplotypes of hundreds of species.
Edited by Organicmachination, : No reason given.

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 Message 88 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 6:07 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 6:15 PM Organicmachination has replied
 Message 94 by deerbreh, posted 06-23-2008 5:15 PM Organicmachination has not replied
 Message 95 by ramoss, posted 06-23-2008 6:09 PM Organicmachination has not replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5736 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 91 of 164 (472337)
06-21-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Force
06-21-2008 6:15 PM


Re: Neanderthals & sapiens
Could you summarize what you mean by "lost" and the premise of your question? I'd rather not do the hunting to figure out what the question is. I'm new to this overarching debate and it would be in the best interests of this discussion if I could have some sort of basis to work on rather than having to read and dissect pages of posts.
If it is indeed a lot of info, feel free to reject my request. In that case, I'll have to read the entire thread and take some time to formulate a response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Force, posted 06-21-2008 6:15 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
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