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Author Topic:   natural selection is wrong
Peter
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 55 of 276 (111971)
06-01-2004 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Syamsu
05-26-2004 9:12 AM


quote:
Since the paper includes lightningstrikes as a legitimate example of natural selection
No it doesn't. Read it again.
It states that lightning strikes are NOT involved in natural
selection, but that they affect gene frequencies and so
environmental factors can influence evolution along-side natural
selection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Syamsu, posted 05-26-2004 9:12 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 56 of 276 (111972)
06-01-2004 4:20 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Syamsu
05-31-2004 10:54 PM


I view natural selection to be like a populational filter.
There are many, many factors which cause change in the
gene-pool of a population, from mutations to global
catastrophy. Any of these, alone, can cause 'evolution'.
None of it explains the apparent suitedness of orgnanisms
to their natural environments.
Filter the population with an 'environmental relationship'
and we can see the explanation of suitedness.
Natural selection IS about the relationship of an organism
to its environment, and evolution IS about descent with
modification.
Without the modification/variation part there is no evolution.
The removal of variation equates to a 'zero force' law, since
variation is one of the key parameters (not the ONLY one though).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Syamsu, posted 05-31-2004 10:54 PM Syamsu has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 100 of 276 (112569)
06-03-2004 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Syamsu
06-03-2004 12:02 AM


quote:
5- Some organisms reproduce other's don't reproduce.
6- Some organisms survive other's don't survive
In the past you have said that 6 is NOT valid since
no organisms are immortal i.e. No organisms survive.
The concern in evolution is to study the diversity of
life on earth, and to investigate the origins of that
diversity.
If one wishes to study diversity, one cannot neglect the
diverseness. One is stuck with looking at variations
between and within species/populations.
That other areas of biology neglect/filter-out the diversity
is irrelevant, since the prime motivation is generalisation
NOT investigation of diversity.
Some general observations:
1. Organisms are (in some sense) 'born'.
2. Organisms live.
3. Organisms die.
The duration of 2. is dependent on the organisms relationship
with it's environment + inherent limitations.
The environment consists of things which can be overcome given
an approriate structure or strategy (e.g. low-light, high temp.,
etc.) and those which cannot (e.g. lightening, asteroids, etc.).
During 2. some organisms are responsible for step 1. in
their offsprings' cycles. i.e. they reproduce.
Reproduction does not produce perfect copies of the parent
or parents.
Those with longer duration in step 2. have a greater number of
opportunities to reproduce (but may not due to other
environmental factors ... like no mates, not enough food, etc.)
Within a single species, those individuals that have longer
number 2. TEND to leave more offspring (unless they are humans )
Within a single species that exhibits variation (and at some level
ALL species vary) some variants MAY be more plentiful than
others.
There must be some explanation for this.
Diversity = F(survival, reproduction)
Survival = F(environment, traits)
Reproduction = F(environment, traits, survival)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Syamsu, posted 06-03-2004 12:02 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
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