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Author Topic:   Hurricane Katrina
Faith
Member
Posts: 33295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 256 of 315 (240309)
09-03-2005 7:53 PM


The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
The destruction of New Orleans is a blow to the entire nation that is not going to be over soon, possibly not ever. We start with the horrors of the people left stranded in complete misery, but there are more horrors to come.

Got this via email but didn't want to post the entire column, and I don't know anything about this site but they had it there so here it is:

http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/forumid:5/threadid:18556

An excerpt:

During the Cold War, a macabre topic of discussion among bored
graduate students who studied such things was this: If the Soviets
could destroy one city with a large nuclear device, which would it be?
The usual answers were Washington or New York. For me, the answer was
simple: New Orleans. If the Mississippi River was shut to traffic,
then the foundations of the economy would be shattered. The industrial
minerals needed in the factories wouldn't come in, and the
agricultural wealth wouldn't flow out. Alternative routes really
weren't available. The Germans knew it too: A U-boat campaign occurred
near the mouth of the Mississippi during World War II. Both the
Germans and Stratfor have stood with Andy Jackson: New Orleans was the
prize.

Last Sunday, nature took out New Orleans almost as surely as a nuclear
strike. Hurricane Katrina's geopolitical effect was not, in many ways,
distinguishable from a mushroom cloud. The key exit from North America
was closed. The petrochemical industry, which has become an added
value to the region since Jackson's days, was at risk. The
navigability of the Mississippi south of New Orleans was a question
mark. New Orleans as a city and as a port complex had ceased to exist,
and it was not clear that it could recover.

The Ports of South Louisiana and New Orleans, which run north and
south of the city, are as important today as at any point during the
history of the republic. On its own merit, POSL is the largest port in
the United States by tonnage and the fifth-largest in the world. It
exports more than 52 million tons a year, of which more than half are
agricultural products -- corn, soybeans and so on. A large proportion
of U.S. agriculture flows out of the port. Almost as much cargo,
nearly 17 million tons, comes in through the port -- including not
only crude oil, but chemicals and fertilizers, coal, concrete and so
on.

A simple way to think about the New Orleans port complex is that it is
where the bulk commodities of agriculture go out to the world and the
bulk commodities of industrialism come in. The commodity chain of the
global food industry starts here, as does that of American
industrialism. If these facilities are gone, more than the price of
goods shifts: The very physical structure of the global economy would
have to be reshaped. Consider the impact to the U.S. auto industry if
steel doesn't come up the river, or the effect on global food supplies
if U.S. corn and soybeans don't get to the markets.

Here are a few lines of what God told the Israelites would happen to them if they did not obey the Law of the Covenant they had just made with Him:

Deuteronomy 28:15 "But it shall come to pass come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: 16 "Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country. 17 "Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 "Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 19 "Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out ... 25 "The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. ... you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

As long as the attitude continues to prevail in this country that disaster is a matter of statistics and nothing out of the ordinary, as long as God is ignored or reviled or considered to be remote from these "ordinary" disasters, they will only get worse.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 260 by Silent H, posted 09-04-2005 6:22 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 261 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 7:59 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 273 by Omnivorous, posted 09-04-2005 9:29 PM Faith has not yet responded
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1956
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 257 of 315 (240310)
09-03-2005 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
09-03-2005 7:53 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
as long as God is ignored or reviled or considered to be remote from these "ordinary" disasters, they will only get worse.

For once I totally agree with Faith. As long as people continue to worship false gods and turn their face away from The Lord of Lords King of Kings, Odin the Allfather they will be punished by Thor, God of Thunder and/or Ran, Goddess of the Drowned.


If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

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Replies to this message:
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wj
Inactive Member


Message 258 of 315 (240318)
09-03-2005 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
09-03-2005 7:53 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
faith writes:

As long as the attitude continues to prevail in this country that disaster is a matter of statistics and nothing out of the ordinary, as long as God is ignored or reviled or considered to be remote from these "ordinary" disasters, they will only get worse.

One had to wonder how long it would take before the cranks would come out with their god's punishment line.

The opportunism displayed by Faith and his/her kind is morally and ethically repulsive. I only revile those who thrive on the misery and disaster of others to support their own immature, spiteful, dependent personalities.


This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 315 (240329)
09-04-2005 12:38 AM


Personal experiences
Ok, so we were going to go out to the Astrodome to contribute some stuff. We had a lot of stuff.

No way you can get in there. They told us to go to the Food Bank.

Ok, we went down there.

One look at that place will put you in fear of your life.

We came home. We are sitting on the back porch enjoying our beer and poetry. We accomplished nothing.

This message has been edited by robinrohan, 09-03-2005 11:45 PM


Silent H
Member (Idle past 4106 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 260 of 315 (240346)
09-04-2005 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
09-03-2005 7:53 PM


Re: The Tragedy that Keeps on Taking
As long as the attitude continues to prevail in this country that disaster is a matter of statistics and nothing out of the ordinary, as long as God is ignored or reviled or considered to be remote from these "ordinary" disasters, they will only get worse.

Exactly. Since Bush/Cheney entered office and began inserting neocon and ultrarightwing agendas (and breaking campaign promises to do so), we have suffered:

1) The worst terrorist attack (or any other kind of attack) in US history. The main focus of attack being the centers of rightwing economic and military power.

2) Had a fatal shuttle disaster, this one carrying a torah and studded with religious messages from Bush and Sharon, lauding themselves and God. It might as well have been the arrow shot from the tower of Babble, fo the response that their hubris got them.

3) A march into a new an terrible war based on amazingly collosal failures of intelligence, almost miraculous in nature.

Even more shortly after Bush and Co were reinstalled on a platform of increased hypocrisy and hatred to others in the name of God (taking his name in vain does not mean swearing by the way), we have had:

1) One of the worst natural disasters in US history hit a key port, a base for economic and oil (resource) power. This was made worse by (it appears) equally failed intelligence.

2) The death of a Supreme Court justice. I decided to throw that in as a massive evangelical prayer vigil was held for God to target bad justices for elimination from the supreme court, buy death if necessary. So far two conservatives were hit, with the most conservative being killed.

If there are divine signs in tragedies, why are you so blind that you cannot read them?


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 261 of 315 (240351)
09-04-2005 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
09-03-2005 7:53 PM


choose ignorance!
as long as God is ignored or reviled or considered to be remote

ah yes, and of course as long as science and evidence is reviled or ignored, whether it involves the evidence of global warming and the effects of a few degrees on extreme weather or the efects of pollution or the behavior of tectonic plates and soil settlement,

as long as we have a government that keeps reducing the spending on keeping infrastructure operational if not improved,

as long as people keep pouring in to live in places prone to disasters of remote probability ...

... then it won't be our fault when it happens, and when it does we can always revile the people that told us different and continue to ignore the evidence.

so let's chose to be ignorant and not do anything.

enjoy.

{edited to rewrite for more clarity}

This message has been edited by RAZD, 09*04*2005 09:13 AM


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 262 of 315 (240355)
09-04-2005 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Silent H
09-03-2005 5:43 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
As soon as NO was slated for evacuation, the federal gov't should have been sending in troops on its own to secure vital areas. The potential for additional damage by manmade sources (namely terrorists) escalated exponentially at that moment... and that is besides the looting issues.

I don't believe that anyone anticipated the level of violence that is taking place to start putting federal troops in to stabilize it. Usually, the local police and National Guard augmentees can easily handle a few looters. Despite comments that all of the National Guard troops are at home with their legs blown off from Iraq, there is plenty of people to handle a normal level of civil unrest.


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 263 of 315 (240358)
09-04-2005 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Silent H
09-03-2005 4:53 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Maybe you do not remember the floods of last decade further north in the Mississppi. I do as well as all the troops that had to be deployed to fix things and keep order. At that time some people (not even terrorists) sabotaged flood defenses. Bush was not considering that that could be a possibility?

Again, there wasn't the level of violence that is occuring here. We didn't have to pull 50% of the sandbaggers off the line to shoot back at the citizens.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Silent H, posted 09-03-2005 4:53 AM Silent H has not yet responded

Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 264 of 315 (240359)
09-04-2005 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Silent H
09-03-2005 5:43 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Yet you continue to protest your own ignorance to the world. Hey, were you one of the assholes that tried to say I was against the military and wars and stuff like that?

Look up the records of my posts and find that out for yourself. I don't care if you protest the war. What my beef with you is how you are portraying Bush in the command faccett.


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 265 of 315 (240360)
09-04-2005 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Silent H
09-03-2005 5:43 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Oh by the way, I don't get Chris Matthews where I am.

Then you must be in a very good place IMO.


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 266 of 315 (240361)
09-04-2005 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Silent H
09-03-2005 5:43 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Perhaps you can provide reasons that no one would expect that a situation would develop... when a city is being evacuated... where serious security issues might not develop and require federal oversight.

You've got me there. We are all still trying to figure out why over 100 busses left the city empty because the people refused to get on them before the storm. I asked a couple of the evacuees with children why they didn't take the free ride out, just if for no other reason than to protect their children. That to me is poor leadership. When you are without means to move yourself, and you have precious innocent children and someone comes along and says here's a free way out, and they refuse it, then bitch and complain about the lack of help.

That in itself speaks volumes. Why on earth were amphibious craft, or at the very least aquatic vehicles, not moved into theater? Flooding issues were not expected? is that what you are telling? That is only an argument for greater ignorance than I was originally positing.

They are stored in WRSK kits in various places around the country. To have been in theater in time, they would have had to have been started to be moved in mid August. That would have cost millions of dollars that we don't have. We don't even have enough money at times to order parts to fix the A/C. We've had to excuse UTA's for some members for the rest of the year due to lack of funds for billeting.

So you try to be frugal and only fly the missions that are real world confirmed. Moving amphibious craft into position before the event would not have made sence in mid august. If that were the case, we should be moving assets into regions right now to prepare for terrorists nukings. No money though. So we are moving them in as fast as possible with our "Johnny come Lately" hats on.


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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 267 of 315 (240362)
09-04-2005 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Lizard Breath
09-04-2005 9:03 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Lizard Breath writes:

quote:
I don't believe that anyone anticipated the level of violence that is taking place to start putting federal troops in to stabilize it. Usually, the local police and National Guard augmentees can easily handle a few looters.

Yes, but usually that happens within hours of a disaster. When you wait days, when you leave people locked in filthy rape rooms, when you wait until survivors are either dead or dying, what the hell do you expect, a welcome wagon?


"I think younger workers — first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government — promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is."— George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 268 of 315 (240364)
09-04-2005 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by Lizard Breath
09-04-2005 9:23 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
They are stored in WRSK kits in various places around the country.

So there were none stored in the area around a known flooding hazard and a known hurrican hazard, that could deal with the known potential disaster as well as be a staging ground for other areas.

I'm sorry, LB, I think the Coast Guard is doing a fantastic job with the resources, but I think there {is\was} severe disconnect on what needed to be done 5, 10 years ago, plus what the DHS by their own mandate should have had planned, and what we see.

I think you {guys\gals} we left holding the bag with the bottom cut off.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Lizard Breath, posted 09-04-2005 9:23 AM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 269 of 315 (240366)
09-04-2005 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by berberry
09-04-2005 9:26 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
I would expect human beings to not create rape rooms and to not enguage the people who are there to help them. I would expect anger and rage in their tones, but not a breakdown of moral values.

This goes back to a thread several months back where you and I went at it over universal morality outside of grand design. You said that you don't need a creator for ther to be univeral moral goods. Now you are saying " What do you expext these people to do" which supports my posture that there is no universal humanistic morality. When you tell people that they are highly evolved animals, they will act like such.


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 270 of 315 (240367)
09-04-2005 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by RAZD
09-04-2005 9:40 AM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
I think you {guys\gals} we left holding the bag with the bottom cut off.

And it wasn't sand in the bag but something else that starts with an "S".


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