Astral Projection

just curious on peoples' thoughts on astral projection and what it really is and if it's really possible.
i've read alot about it, and i like teh idea of the material plain and the astral plain...but it could be a bunch of garbage i guess.
i'm sure you guys of all people can put it straight for me.

Thread moved here from the Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution forum.

NexusI have never experienced astral projection I don't think.I have had vivid dreams especially when I was a kid.I can't say that I am sure there is a way to tell whether or not you have actually done so unless you can demonstrate it under controlled conditions and then be at least as accurate as you would in an awake state.
My best friend claims to have done so but the descriptions he gave were of things already familiar to him and tended to be inanimate objects.Imagination would win out in my opinion.I must also stress here that we are easily fooled when awake and alert not to mention when sleeping.

I sure as heck tried to do it as a teenager. I'd try it every night, as hard as I could. I read voraciously on the subject. It sure seemed useful, right? Fly around and spy on people, travel the world?Never made it work. I don't think it's possible. People who say they're doing it are just dreaming. Nobody's ever had a confirmable out-of-body experience where they could see anything they hadn't seen when they were awake.Get some books, try it out. I saw The Astral Projection Manual in Barnes and Noble the other day. Give it a shot. There's plenty of paranormal information on the web. I'm sure it's safe; you're only dreaming after all. At best you're just flying your soul around, and since you can pass through matter, and it through you, what could hurt you? Heh, if you like planes, start playing Dungeons and Dragons and pick up The Manual of the Planes. You've got planes for all the alignment groups (Lawful/Chaos, Good/Evil), the four elements, the Prime Material plane, the Plane of Shadow, the Ethereal Plane, and a host of others. More planes than you can shake a +1 Longsword at.

crashfrogNow you've done it! Now all the Christians are going to know that we are evil D&D playing maniacs and that is why we are atheists.Man How could let us all down like that. Now I am going to have to steal a helmet of alignment change so I can hide amongst them undetected while I hatch my evil plans.Damn! That won't work will it?

If most D&D players are atheists, that's news to me. Of course it's hard to be an atheist when your party's cleric is calling on the power of his god to cast Cure Light Wounds after every battle to patch up your Fighter...Sorry, though, didn't mean to spoil the secret. It's out, now - all evolutionist atheists play Dungeons and Dragons! (which is really weird because the Monster Manual is preposterous from a biological standpoint. Rust Monsters, indeed!)

Hee hee. My friends and I used to sit around with the MM, MMII, etc, and try and make up plausible (or at least not too patently absurd) evolutionary explanations for the particular critters. IIRC, rust monsters had defective genetics for incorporating iron into their hemoglobin, and were forced to injest FeO directly from their environment. Obviously, anything that permitted them to increase the local concentrations of iron oxide would have an evolutionary advantage, hence selecting for the ability to artificially increase the amount available. We did a lot of hypothesizing based on niche construction theory.

I'd have to ask you what evolutionary niche a beholder fills... maybe that niche where it's really beneficial to have a crapload of eyes on stalks? (are there any real animals with eyes on stalks?)

crashfrogYou're right I shouldn't have lumped all Christians like that.There was a local flap about D&D,when I was living in B.C. in the early 80's,that centered around a news article about some college kids somewhere that took their dungeon into the real world and someone ended up hurt or dead I don't remember which.
The church and most people took this to be a sign of demon possesion that occured from the playing of D&D.I was warned about the hazards to my soul many a time and ,back then,I found it hard to be able to deal with listening to such crap so I would tend to be curt with my responses to them.Well, that just verified their beliefs since,as they would tell me,I had been so nice before so I must then be under sway of Satan and his buddies.I did not stay too much longer in that town which is a shame it was a very beautiful place,one of the best in B.C.

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'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.'
(Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

I read some books on astral-projection as a teen-ager and even attempted it.(Mind you, this was back in the seventies when there were hippies, UFO crazes, ESP, clarovoiants, etc.) Unfortunately(or fortunately?) I got only so far in an attempt to see the "white-light", and then I either fell asleep or began to question if it wasn't a load of crap! Here's an idea. Maybe its related to those little white flashes that people sometimes see at the edge of their vision after experiencing a bump on the head. The neurons in the human brain produce and communicate by electrochemical discharges that, if happening close to the optic-nerves, then the eyes will pick up images of dancing "white lights". What says anybody about this and astral-projection?[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 02-01-2004]

Hi Nexus, I had a few out-of-the-body expeeriences in my youth. Was involved in Scientology at the time. But I don't giver them any credence now.
I've spent the last 40 yerars studying biology, psychology, philosophy, physics, astronomy and you name it, and have come to the conclusion that there is no consciousness when there is no nervous system.
It's all in the mind!
Mike

I have been told some out of body experiences. My pastor told me and a group of friends about his out of body experiences. the most recent one he had was a feww weeks ago when an angel went to him and took him out of his body. they flied to haiti. the country that shares an island in the carribean with the dominican republic. in that experience he saw the begginings of a revolution in that country and that it was going to be a very big one. a few days later here in the papers in puerto rico there were news reports of a brewing civil war in that country. right now things are getting ugly down thereThe other one involved the united states and this wole mars thing. The angel got him inside the pentagon where he saw plans of the instalment of some secret satelites in mars with the purpose of spying the world and dominate it indirectly. that system would obviously be controlled by computers and could also launch missiles from space that no anti missile system could intercept. He said that the angel told him that this wouldnt last long since other nations, especially those in the european union would eventually hack the system and use it against the united states. Bush will disguise this whole thing as science and research just like he disguised the invasion of irak with weapons of mass destruction(when what he wants is oil)ill now some people here will start saying that im dillusional and all that stuff but i dont care. They said the same thing to him when he spoke of the world trade center attacks three months before they happened

And where was this prediction published in advance of Sep 11?I would expect, as is always the case, there was nothing recorded to prove this was said. And, in many cases, what was said is so vague as to be useless as a prediction of anything.

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Common sense isn't

So i gues youre saying that what i heard three months before it happened was a lie or maybe a cruel joke. even if i had written it down and mailed it to you when i heard it you still would deny it

It is just interesting that these sort of dramatic predictions never seem to be writen down in a secure way. It is always word of mouth after the fact.You can no longer remember even the exact words he said. Our memories are too easily corrupted as has been shown over and over in psychological experiments.

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Common sense isn't