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Author Topic:   Atlas Shrugged
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 117 (185229)
02-14-2005 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by portmaster1000
02-14-2005 3:16 PM


Yeah, I read some of Rands stuff. Ayn Rand is a deep thinker! I disagree with her belief system...but I DO respect her intellect! NOTE:
"In proportion to the mental energy he spent, the man who creates a new invention receives but a small percentage of his value in terms of material payment, no matter what fortune he makes, no matter what millions he earns. But the man who works as a janitor in the factory producing that invention, receives an enormous payment in proportion to the mental effort that his job requires of him. And the same is true of all men between, on all levels of ambition and ability. The man at the top of the intellectual pyramid contributes the most to all those below him, but gets nothing except his material payment, receiving no intellectual bonus from others to add to the value of his time. The man at the bottom who, left to himself, would starve in his hopeless ineptitude, contributes nothing to those above him, but receives the bonus of all of their brains. Such is the nature of the 'competition' between the strong and the weak of the intellect. Such is the pattern of 'exploitation' for which you have damned the strong."
[Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged ]
Smart! I disagree with her refusal to acknowledge God as a source of superior wisdom, however. NOTE:
"They claim that they perceive a mode of being superior to your existence on this earth. The mystics of spirit call it 'another dimension,' which consists of denying dimensions. The mystics of muscle call it 'the future,' which consists of denying the present. To exist is to possess identity. What identity are they able to give to their superior realm? They keep telling you what it is not, but never tell you what it is. All their identifications consist of negating: God is that which no human mind can know, they say--and proceed to demand that you consider it knowledge--God is non-man, heaven is non-earth, soul is non-body, virtue is non-profit, A is non-A, perception is non-sensory, knowledge is non-reason. Their definitions are not acts of defining, but of wiping out." [Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged ]
She refuses Christian theism because it wipes out her right to disagree. I can respect that she has made her decision regarding her thought process and world view.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by portmaster1000, posted 02-14-2005 3:16 PM portmaster1000 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 117 (185497)
02-15-2005 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dan Carroll
02-15-2005 9:19 AM


Dan writes:
"Today would have been Ayn Rand's 100th birthday. In celebration, I'm going to bake a cake and then not share it with anybody."
Atlas shrugged and said, "What do I care? I'm on a diet anyway!"
Seriously, though...I've never read an entire book of hers, so I don't have a complete grasp of her philosophy. Can I have just one small slice of that cake, Dan? Think: Communion!
BTW Contracycle wants you to bake a file into the cake so that we can break out of our capitalist chains!
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-15-2005 08:12 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-15-2005 9:19 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 76 of 117 (187490)
02-22-2005 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by contracycle
02-22-2005 11:41 AM


contracycle writes:
Rand talks about the "value" of intellectual contribution, and who ends up with that value. What is value, anyway?
Well, lemme look it up:
Websters writes:
1value \val-yu\ n 1 : a fair return or equivalent in money, goods, or services for something exchanged 2 : the monetary worth of a thing; also : relative worth, utility, or importance 3 : an assigned or computed numerical quantity 4 : relative lightness or darkness of a color : luminosity 5 : the relative length of a tone or note 6 : something (as a principle or ideal) intrinsically valuable or desirable valueless adj
or
2value vb valued; valuing 1 : to estimate the monetary worth of : appraise 2 : to rate in usefulness, importance, or general worth 3 : to consider or rate highly : prize, esteem valuer n
This link is also useful:
William H. Stoddard writes:
Rand says that value is "that which one acts to gain and/or keep." In her view, then, organisms act to gain and/or keep their own existence.
Why is the value of labor different relative to the culture and ethnicity of the laborer? I am worth $15.66 an hour at my job, yet they could hire 3 people at $5.22 an hour if they wanted.(almost legally)
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-22-2005 10:11 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 91 of 117 (188024)
02-24-2005 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by crashfrog
02-23-2005 11:08 PM


Re: I'll take that bet
Crashfrog writes:
I work and spend money on things just like the rest of us, and I like that I live in a place where if I have the money I can have nearly anything I want.
But that's no reason not to find something better, is it?
I may be wrong, but the problem as I perceive it is that we as American working class are already at an artificially inflated economic position on a worldwide scale...Thus we almost have to keep the system that we have in order to maintain the slowly shrinking standard of living that we enjoy. Am I right, Contra? There is no way that any sort of socialist system would help the average middle class American is there? It may help people in Niceragua but not Newark!

This message is a reply to:
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