|
Author
|
Topic: Just a question...
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
easy answer
I see very little support from any mods for topics supporting creationism. I wonder why... The biggest reason is that so far no one has ever been able to provide a model for creationism that can stand up to examination. It would be great if there was ever someone who could present a model that explained creationism.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by DiscipleFire, posted 10-16-2007 5:59 PM | | DiscipleFire has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Starting down the irrelevant trail.
First off, disproving one theory adds no support to another theory. If you want to provide any support for Creationism then you need to present the model that explains what is seen better than the existing ones.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by DiscipleFire, posted 10-16-2007 6:26 PM | | DiscipleFire has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Still off in wonderland.
Stop evading the questions you don't like answering. You can all preach to me about the "scientificness" of evolution. I don't much care. Until you can explain nothingness that the Big Bang started from...preach your own little religion at me. Sorry but all that is irrelevant to showing any support for Creationism. This really is the problem. No one has ever been able to present any support for Creationism.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by DiscipleFire, posted 10-16-2007 6:31 PM | | DiscipleFire has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Wish someone would present a Creation Model
It would be nice for a change if some Creationist ever presented a model for their theory. Instead, we get the Type 3 poster like this one and the occasional Type 1 poster. But hope springs eternal.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Chiroptera, posted 10-16-2007 6:38 PM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Gotta point out some other false assertions.
And your saying that believing the God created the world and gives you the hope and joy of experiencing an eternal existence is any harder to believe than we all evolved from from inorganic (as in not living) soup which exploded from nothing and all we have to look forward is to dying and being reprocessed back into the earth. Of course, believing in God even the Christian God has nothing to do with the validity of the Theory of Evolution. Trying to use that as part of the argument is simply as futile and worthless as thinking that attacking one theory adds support to another. The FACT is that Evolution is accepted by many if not most Christians, and in the words of the Clergy Letter, an open letter currently endorsed by over 11,000 US Christian Clergy:
We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. So two steps. First, attacking the current models does nothing to support Creationism. Second, pretending it is a religious or Christian issue is simply false. So next step is to see if you can present models that explain what is seen better than the current models. So far NO Creationist has ever been able to do so, which is why they simply run away instead of trying to support Creationism. Edited by TrueChristian, : and
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by DiscipleFire, posted 10-16-2007 6:26 PM | | DiscipleFire has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
more irrelevance
DiscipleFire writes: "in the last days there will come scoffers" Irrelevant and as pointed out to you, unrelated to the issues of either Evolution or Christianity. It also does nothing to support Creationism. If you expect Creationism to ever be more than just something to laugh about, then you need to present the models that explain what is seen better than the current models.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by DiscipleFire, posted 10-16-2007 9:38 PM | | DiscipleFire has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Still misunderstanding what is needed.
I've decided I don't believe in either, now prove to me evolution is true. We don't have to prove creationism. Explain to me how something that is not living can become living. It simply doesn't matter what you believe. The current models adequately explain what is seen. They explain the evidence we see as far as the universe we live in and the evolution of the life around us. If Creationism is to ever be more than just a joke, you will have to present models that explain what is seen better than the existing ones. That is what is needed. That is what the Creationists have never been able to do.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by DiscipleFire, posted 10-16-2007 9:33 PM | | DiscipleFire has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: The pile-on
What you are experiencing is known as the atheist pile-on... I myself am a magnet for it. Really? Get serious NJ. Is it not simply another example of the total inability of the Biblical Creationist posters to even recognize what is needed to support their position?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2007 5:38 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
Message 64 of 199 (429685)
10-21-2007 10:55 AM
|
Reply to: Message 59 by itrownot
10-21-2007 1:54 AM
|
|
Re: Wish someone would present a Creation Model
hey, jar, since I'm new to this forum, would you please either give a brief description of your own (nonCreationist?) model or else cite some previous post that might explain it? I'm curious to know what you believe. It is the conventional model, called science. The model is readily available most anywhere. But where is the Biblical Creationists model? Why is it they can never present a model that explains what we see? Why is it they can never present a model for the flood that can stand up to even a cursory examination? Where are the Biblical Creationists models?
I'm past doubting, jar, thanks be to God, but I know many others are not (yet) so blessed. How sad and pitiful.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 1:54 AM | | itrownot has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 65 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 5:26 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 66 of 199 (429765)
10-21-2007 5:32 PM
|
Reply to: Message 65 by itrownot
10-21-2007 5:26 PM
|
|
Re: Wish someone would present a Creation Model
IOW, I meant that i was "past doubting" the existence of "God", since I believe that God graciously manifested himself to me after so many years of doubt on my part. Too bad, pitiful.
BTW, science is not a model, but a field of systematic study, of course. I don't claim to have a "creationist" model, but surely you do have a real "evolutionist" model that you can cite in so many words? Is there only one monolithic "evolutionist" model to which you may be referring, albeit indirectly, or are there many? I don't know, honestly--I was just curious to hear how life may have begun, for example, according to the "evolutionist" model. There are many models, cosmological ones, biological ones, chemical ones. The study of how life began is called Abiogenesis and right now we do not have a firm model there. Until we do have more information, that model sits in the Unknown category.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 5:26 PM | | itrownot has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 5:42 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 69 of 199 (429770)
10-21-2007 5:44 PM
|
Reply to: Message 68 by itrownot
10-21-2007 5:42 PM
|
|
Re: Wish someone would present a Creation Model
I feel sad anytime someone says they believe in God beyond any doubt.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 5:42 PM | | itrownot has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 6:07 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 78 of 199 (429794)
10-21-2007 7:12 PM
|
Reply to: Message 71 by itrownot
10-21-2007 6:07 PM
|
|
Re: Wish someone would present a Creation Model
I'm sorry but did you not say:
Yes, I am "past learning" about the existence of God in that I have sufficient empirical evidence of my own to satisfy all previous doubt, and I have now put that question aside. Now you say:
Also, I said I was "past doubt" because I don't intend to keep revisiting that particular question ad nauseum after so many years of doubting. LOL I am not sure how else to take those statement other than as saying you now say you believe in God "beyond any doubt."
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 6:07 PM | | itrownot has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 79 of 199 (429797)
10-21-2007 7:44 PM
|
|
|
Still pleading for a Biblical Creationist model
I'm still pleading for a Biblical Creationist model for what is seen, first for a Young Earth Explanation for sand and then, once we can examine that, perhaps move on to something more complex. So far NO "Creo" has ever been able to present a model for anything that is seen, not one single thing. If "Creationism" ever hopes to be anything more than just a joke, and not a very original joke at that, they are going to have to stop simply claiming "Creation Science" and actually do some. I have some hope that someday there will actually be a Type 2b Creationist, but so far not one has ever appeared.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 82 of 199 (429813)
10-21-2007 9:20 PM
|
Reply to: Message 81 by itrownot
10-21-2007 8:48 PM
|
|
Re: Wish someone would present a Creation Model
Message 66 for one place.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by itrownot, posted 10-21-2007 8:48 PM | | itrownot has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 101 of 199 (429949)
10-22-2007 6:23 PM
|
Reply to: Message 100 by itrownot
10-22-2007 6:06 PM
|
|
so is there a "Creationist model"
So is there a "Creationist model(s)" to explain any of what is seen in this universe?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 100 by itrownot, posted 10-22-2007 6:06 PM | | itrownot has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2