Is there any reason that the US government should be trusted?

The latest example of the moral bankruptcy of the current US administration is the distruction of the video tapes of CIA interrogations.As the evidence continues to mount, incident after incident, is there ANY reason for US citizens to place any trust in our government?As the evidence continues to mount, incident after incident, is there ANY reason for foreign nations to place any trust in our government?

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

Nope. Nope.Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

[politics=conservative]When it comes to surveillance of civilians and detention without habeas corpus, sure -- the government can be trusted to root out the terrorists and keep decent people free.When it comes to sending military forces into other countries, of course -- the government can be trusted to replace corrupt dictatorships with Western style liberal democracy.When it comes to providing health care to all citizens -- of course not. That is an unwarranted intrusion into peoples' lives and the first step toward a Stalinist gulag.[/politics]OUCH! Shit! I just sprained my brain!

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If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

Not unless people elect leaders with some resemblance of a BRAIN.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other

Well, in the very opening statement of your link, it says:"The Justice Department and the Central Intelligence Agency’s internal watchdog on Saturday began a joint preliminary inquiry into the spy agency’s destruction of hundreds of hours of videotapes showing interrogations of top operatives of Al Qaeda."That means that people working for the internal affairs of the government, government employees themselves, broke the case wide open. Instead of asking if the entire government could be trusted, why not ask whether or not certain individuals could be trusted?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Actually they only did that after newspapers threatened to break the story and after it came out in testimony that the tapes were not available.And yes, the whole Government, at ALL levels.AbE: and why should we trust any internal investigation by the very Justice Department that has been show to ignore civil and Constitutional Rights?Edited by jar, : add more

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

Where did you come across this information? From what I gather from the link, it was an operative named Jose A. Rodriguez Jr that solicited that information in lieu of his upcoming retirement. And then it went on to say that the White House officials asked that they not destroy the tapes prior to their supposed destruction. That's silly, Jar. So you can't trust anyone in any government position? Not the Supreme Court, Dept of Agriculture, Dept of Education, Dept of Homeland Security, Dept of Treasury, Dept of Labor, etc, etc? I assume also that it means you won't be voting... ever.Come on, Jar. First of all, supposing the CIA did destroy tapes (innocence before guilt), that only comes from one tiny fraction of the US government. If they did do it, is it messed up? Heck yeah. Should they pay whatever penalty that exists within the US Code if found guilty? Heck yeah. But blaming the entirety of the US government to show your disdain seems like a bit much. You are taking individuals and saying that it encompasses the entire department. That's not fair. That's what racists do. You wouldn't want to blame an entire group of people based on something that some individuals have done, would you?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

No, I will vote. I expect once again though that an attempt will be made to steal the election and falsify the results, but hopefully there will be enough folk that distrust the government to oversee the election and catch whatever fraud is there.I would be in favor of some outside agent, maybe the UN, coming in to oversee our elections. But that is always your excuse every time an example of governmental misconduct is discovered; "Oh, it's only that part that holds phony press conferences. It's only that part that redacts testimony. It's only that part that suppresses data. It's only that part that condones torture."How many examples are needed? Of course it is fair, this is not a race, it is a business, and it has been shown to be corrupt from bottom to top. It is a perversion.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

At the risk of dragging this OT, I won't ask about the stealing of elections. But if the government is as corrupt as you say, then why not just become an anarchist? Why not an overthrow of the government? Why not try to get people to subvert the government if this is how you feel? But more importantly, if every person within the government is corrupt, then why would you vote government officials? If they're ALL bad then what difference does it make?You know, I think Crashfrog works for the US government. Is your buddy an evil co-conspirator too? The only reason the UN exists is because of the US government, the very thing you are railing against. That hardly sounds impartial. Secondly, if the UN is an outside agency, then what gives them the authority to govern the government? Always? Like hyperbole much? I've said it maybe twice, and only because its true. Its ridiculous to assert that everyone working for the government is corrupt. If you were to conclude that, then every single person is corrupt on the same basis, even you. If that's the case, condemn yourself. No its not fair because its tantamount to prejudice. You are prejudging people in the government, when it was a government employee that exposed the allegations in the first place.If certain members of the CIA were destroying evidence, then let the US government prosecute them on that basis. Even up to the Supreme Court, who, ironically enough, are government employees.Are you ready to say that in your zeal that you overstepped your bounds -- that not everyone in the government is the anti-christ?I mean, imagine some people in the CIA. Imagine them saying to the culprits, "Hey thanks guys for perpetuating the stereotype. We really appreciate it. Thanks to you, cantankerous souls living in Texas think we're just like you." Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

What do you think we do every other November? "There's no such thing as the mafia. If certain members of the Cosa Nostra were murdering, stealing, extorting, or bribing public officials, then let them be prosecuted on that basis. Godfather is just a term of respect, I'm not really in charge of anything."I wonder if the term "organized crime" means anything to you, if there's absolutely no point at which, for you, the members of an organization are involved in so many crimes that the organization itself must be regarded as criminal. How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?

Because we have a method provided as an alternative to rebellion or anarchism, although those are still a legitimate option. I have hope, a small hope but still a hope, that the former will not be needed. I never said that every person in government is corrupt, and in fact know that to be false. I worked for almost two decades in government and knew quite a few people who were actually very competent. The problem was, they were hampered by the fact that we tend to elect ignorant folk for the most part and write stupid laws. And that is the best case scenario, to actually accomplish anything while working for the government you must do it in spite of the system. Well your first statement might be true if the US ever paid their damn bills, but we cannot even be trusted to do that. As to the second statement, We the People would give them the authority. However I have never said that everyone working for the government was corrupt. If that were true there would have been no need for this Administration to make one of their first acts, removing the protection for whistle blowers. No, I am judging the organization. The fact is that the culture this Administration has created is one of Evil. They have filled as many spots as possible with folk that love secrecy and despise the Constitution. Start at the head and directing influence, the President, Vice-President, Members of the Cabinet, Senior advisers. When the head of a corporation fails miserably and the company is rocked with scandal after scandal, guess what happens? When it is found that actions under that corporate administration were illegal, the CEO can be facing some serious jail time. Well, since I never said that alleging that I did is simply another example of you misrepresenting the facts. Good. Guess what. If this Administration had not removed the protections for whistle blowers, those people might have been able to speak out.The problem Nem is that this Administration began with the full intent to do things that cannot stand the light of day.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

Okay, so you basically want to see RICO charges drummed up on every government employee, is that accurate? If so, you and I are screwed.How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

One.

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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

Not at all. I simply want those responsible for instituting a culture of corruption, those responsible for ordering illegal acts, those responsible for protecting those acts, and those guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity brought to justice. You tell me. Isn't that what I asked you?

Then you are in agreement with me. Jar is saying that from top to bottom, any and all people within the government is a criminal. Rather than being hyperbolic about the whole thing, maybe he should just go after those who are committing the crimes, like you and I suggest.

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How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?

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Yes. Sorry, I forgot to put quote tags on this.I would say some evidence beyond anecdote. If Bush is ordering illegal things, then charge and impeach him. So far, no one has been able to do that.Much of the things that happen within the intelligence community go beyond the President. Not just this president, but all of them. The President of the United States is a bit of a patsy. Proxy wars are fought with or without his expressed approval.Has the CIA gotten out of control? I don't know. I'm fairly certain they have done many things that are illegal per the Geneva Convention. We simply need more accountability within these shadow agencies. People like the man who blew the whistle on the very case we are now discussing.

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake