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Author Topic:   true religion
John
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 84 (40345)
05-16-2003 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
05-15-2003 8:43 PM


quote:
That's a great question for Rrhain!
Lol... I was thinking that too.
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 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 05-15-2003 8:43 PM crashfrog has not replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 84 (40449)
05-16-2003 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Dan Carroll
05-16-2003 3:54 PM


The Caesars were 'gods' while they were still alive. No wonder the Romans were a bit cynical about religion, eh?
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John
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 84 (40736)
05-20-2003 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Philip
05-20-2003 2:24 AM


quote:
"Wow, you claim that everything in the quantum theory is true, yet you haven't even read it all yourself!"
'cept nobody would claim that everything in quantum theory is true. Quantum theory rests on evidence and the evidence is far from complete. It is our attempt to explain some very peculiar observations. And there are some major problems with that explaination. This is no secret. That is why the field is interesting.
On the other hand, the Bible is complete and not that long, so to claim that everything is true when one hasn't read all of it is a bit silly.
By the way, not one of your 'religions' qualifies as religion.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Philip, posted 05-20-2003 2:24 AM Philip has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by mike the wiz, posted 05-20-2003 10:38 AM John has replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 84 (40756)
05-20-2003 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by mike the wiz
05-20-2003 10:38 AM


quote:
i HAVE read most of it
I HAVE read all of it, several times. I don't remember every word of it either, but then, I don't claim that every word is true.
quote:
i think you have read enough to believe it
Yes, but that isn't the issue is it? I don't claim, nor do I believe, that every word in every book on evolution is true. In fact, I know that some things have been proven false, and I am sure that other things will be proven false in time. I would have to read every book on evolution in order to honestly make that claim. You, on the other hand, have claimed and appear to believe that every word of the Bible is true. This means you MUST know every word, or you are just not being honest. You can't know that the next sentence you read won't be false.
quote:
it doesn't mean i'm silly .
You've made a statement that you cannot know to be true. You cannot know it to be true because you have not read every word of the Bible. Maybe you were convinced by the second page that the Bible's message is true. It doesn't follow that every word is true, nor can you make that claim honestly. I have more accurate words than 'silly' but lets be civil.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by mike the wiz, posted 05-20-2003 10:38 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by mike the wiz, posted 05-20-2003 5:20 PM John has replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 84 (40839)
05-20-2003 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by mike the wiz
05-20-2003 5:20 PM


quote:
but i have read everything God has guided me to and personally i believe it is true
You've read what you felt like reading and it sounds good to you. Ok. That isn't the issue.
You have made a statement which you cannot know to be true. How can you reasonably conclude that every word is true when you do not know what every word is? It is like 'knowing' that every letter of the English alphabet is written with at least one straight line.
quote:
which indeed does not make me silly
I never said you were silly. I don't know you. But the claim you made is indeed silly. Or dishonest. Or perhaps you just weren't thinking about it.
quote:
attacked for admitting this
You aren't being attacked for not having read the entire Bible, but for claiming it is all true when you don't even know what it all is. How would you react if someone swore that every word of, say, an Edgar Casey book, were true, and then that person confessed that they hadn't actually read all of it?
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 Message 58 by mike the wiz, posted 05-20-2003 5:20 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Quetzal, posted 05-21-2003 2:35 AM John has replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 84 (40891)
05-21-2003 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Quetzal
05-21-2003 2:35 AM


quote:
"C"? "S"? I think I know what you were trying to say, but I've never heard that analogy before. Can you clarify? Thanks - and sorry for the interruption.
That's exactly the point. Without knowing the whole alphabet you wouldn't have known about 'c' and 's' and 'o' as well. But had you only memorized some, even most, of the alphabet, you might be tempted to agree with the statement-- which is what it seems mike has, metaphorically, done.
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John
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 84 (41070)
05-23-2003 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by truthlover
05-22-2003 11:51 PM


The author of a book I read recently explained this as a problem with the translation of the word 'faith.' The author argued that the 'faith' meant should not be the 'blind faith' we all know and despise, but something more like 'faithfulness' as in the faithfulness of lovers. It is commitment and it is active. Both verses can be true and can even apply to the same thing. The word used in both verses is 'pistis' and its usage in James in the sense mentioned is a bit awkward, but not absurd.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by truthlover, posted 05-22-2003 11:51 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by truthlover, posted 05-23-2003 7:08 PM John has replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 84 (41445)
05-27-2003 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by truthlover
05-23-2003 7:08 PM


quote:
Of course, am I now casually discussing the Biblical view of faith with an atheist/agnostic? That feels a bit odd.
No more odd than casually discussing the Egyptian view of the afterlife, for example.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by truthlover, posted 05-23-2003 7:08 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by truthlover, posted 05-28-2003 1:54 AM John has not replied

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