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Author Topic:   Sex Education
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 46 of 130 (241690)
09-09-2005 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by New Cat's Eye
09-09-2005 2:59 AM


Re: The Plan
I think we basically agree, though I think you have misunderstood one of my points.
I believe that a teacher armed with ciriculum is better prepared than a parent who does not have it. If a parent is willing and able to avail themselves of the material, fantastic. However, I would guess that the vast majority of parents in this country wouldn't / couldn't be bothered to do that. They'd simply stick to basics much as they do today, leaving out what could be valuable, even lifesaving, information.
Additionally, though this isn't a thread about homosexuality (or STDs, or disfunction, or any number of potentially embarising things), a child may raise questions to a teacher that he/she wouldn't dare ask his/her conservative parents.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-09-2005 2:59 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 47 of 130 (241693)
09-09-2005 3:21 AM


Vaguely unrealistic analogy time
"Don't play on the iced up pond kids, its not safe. If you do it you may fall in and drown or freeze."
Abstinence
"Don't play on the iced up pond kids, its not safe. If you do it you may fall in and drown or freeze. Some of you may find yourself in a position where you are on an iced up pond, either through careful thought or through peer pressure, or maybe you'd been drinking. If you do find yourself on a frozen pond, here are some methods for maximising your safety...
...none of these methods will guarantee your safety so remember - the best thing is not to get in that situation in the first place."
Education.
I would rather kids not only be made aware of the risks of an act they are naturally attracted towards, but also how to minimize that risk. Perhaps some kids will have sex because they think it is safe with protection (because they weren't paying attention or whatever), but I think that cost is a hell of a lot lower than the cost of relying on kids to simply do what they are told, which many won't and when they don't, they do things in risky or dangerous way.
To avoid going over previous stuff, there is an open thread on this subject already.

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 48 of 130 (241711)
09-09-2005 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Yaro
09-08-2005 1:44 PM


Why should sex ed discourage promiscuous sex?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Yaro, posted 09-08-2005 1:44 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 8:56 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 49 of 130 (241714)
09-09-2005 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by robinrohan
09-08-2005 8:53 PM


Re: Sex is sexy
Ah that magical cutoff point - the 1960s.
So would you think that Teen Pregencies were higher or lower after the 1960s? (here's a clue - I had this debate with Faith a little while back and dug out the stats).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by robinrohan, posted 09-08-2005 8:53 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Nuggin, posted 09-09-2005 9:55 AM CK has not replied
 Message 63 by robinrohan, posted 09-09-2005 12:49 PM CK has replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 50 of 130 (241735)
09-09-2005 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Dr Jack
09-09-2005 6:27 AM


When I think of the word 'promiscuous', it makes me think orgys, anonymous sex, etc. It makes me think unsafe sex. I don't want that promoted.
Maybe it's really a conflict of terms. To me, 'promiscuous' sounds negative. I think if Sex Ed. Is gonna prommote any kind of sex at all, it should encurage kids to be respectfull of the act, their bodies, and their partners. I hate the idea of someone teaching kids that sex is somehow scary/wrong/imoral but I also wouldn't want someone teaching that you should go out and screw everything that moves.
Not that I think anyone is, but that's what the word 'promiscuous' sounds like to me).
This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-09-2005 08:57 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Dr Jack, posted 09-09-2005 6:27 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Silent H, posted 09-09-2005 9:11 AM Yaro has replied
 Message 54 by Dr Jack, posted 09-09-2005 9:34 AM Yaro has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 51 of 130 (241736)
09-09-2005 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by robinrohan
09-09-2005 12:58 AM


Re: Naughty people
There is something to be said for the prude. I, for example, am a prude. Am I ashamed of being a prude? Nope.
There is nothing inherently wrong with being a prude. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with being a hedonist either. They both come with risks and benefits.
I would argue that asceticism (prudishness) has more risks involved, and so is more of a vice than hedonism, but that is another topic.
If one is a prude, one is still capable of being shocked. The immature feel that only a neophyte is shocked.
That is just name calling. The truly immature defend their position, by calling someone of an opposite position immature if they state their position.
For example, one might consider--indeed, I consider-a woman's breast to be a great marvel. But if seen too frequently, a woman's breast becomes a gland, and I'm not interested in glands.
That is patently absurd. If this were true then everyone would always become less interested in sex and there would be no porn or swingers. Believe me, breasts still look like breasts and I've seen plenty of them.
But I do find this an interesting argument if accepted just for sake of debate. So you are against people becoming doctors? I mean all of them train specifically to view breasts as just glands. That is harmful in your opinion?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by robinrohan, posted 09-09-2005 12:58 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by robinrohan, posted 09-09-2005 12:41 PM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 52 of 130 (241737)
09-09-2005 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Yaro
09-09-2005 8:56 AM


When I think of the word 'promiscuous', it makes me think orgys, anonymous sex, etc. It makes me think unsafe sex. I don't want that promoted.
What do orgies and anonymous sex have to do with unsafe sex? I don't want unsafe sex promoted either.
To me, 'promiscuous' sounds negative. I think if Sex Ed. Is gonna prommote any kind of sex at all, it should encurage kids to be respectfull of the act, their bodies, and their partners. I hate the idea of someone teaching kids that sex is somehow scary/wrong/imoral but I also wouldn't want someone teaching that you should go out and screw everything that moves.
Of course promiscuous sounds negative. That is how it has been protrayed for ages, well when combined with sex. Sex itself sounds negative to most people.
Look at what you just wrote. You discuss respect for "the act" and "their bodies" and "their partners", yet seem to feel that that has some connection to the number of partners they have and how well they know them.
You don't want sex to be viewed negatively, yet you want it to be negative enough on what you feel uncomfortable with. Well that's just what the far right want as well. Nothing that says what they don't want, and blasts what they don't want.
The ONLY THING that sex ed should be promoting is safe sex. That is a particular set of facts regarding how to retain sexual health no matter if you are a right wing monogamous bible-thumper, or a rampant horndog.
There is no such thing as someone teaching any class of kids what "right" sex is. That is for parents to try and impart, and children to explore for themselves.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 8:56 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 9:29 AM Silent H has replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 53 of 130 (241742)
09-09-2005 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Silent H
09-09-2005 9:11 AM


Of course promiscuous sounds negative. That is how it has been protrayed for ages, well when combined with sex. Sex itself sounds negative to most people.
Well, as I said before, perhapse it's a conflict of definitions. After all, the definition of promiscuous includes an aire of irresponsebility.
Look at what you just wrote. You discuss respect for "the act" and "their bodies" and "their partners", yet seem to feel that that has some connection to the number of partners they have and how well they know them.
No I don't. I said it generaly, I don't think teachers should be promoting any particular sex lifestyle. I have no problem with people who have multiple partners, and as long as the sex is consensual and respectfull between parties, I see no problem.
I think teachers, if anything, should promote respect. Not using/abusing people. And I am not implying anything by this statement other than some people are assholes and don't know how to handle a relationship, even a non-serious relationship.
You don't want sex to be viewed negatively, yet you want it to be negative enough on what you feel uncomfortable with.
That's incorrect. I said nothing of the sort. I said 'promiscuous' has negative connotations and perhapse a better word is in order. Perhapse the connotation is purely cultural in nature, none the less, it still portrays a negative image.
Well that's just what the far right want as well. Nothing that says what they don't want, and blasts what they don't want.
That's not what I am advocating. It's up to the kids to figure out how to express their sexuality, the teachers should instill in them a sense of respect and responsability.
The ONLY THING that sex ed should be promoting is safe sex. That is a particular set of facts regarding how to retain sexual health no matter if you are a right wing monogamous bible-thumper, or a rampant horndog.
Perhapse you are correct. Though I have seen many people who just don't know how to treat their partners.
There is no such thing as someone teaching any class of kids what "right" sex is. That is for parents to try and impart, and children to explore for themselves.
Perhapse you are correct. I am not advocating "right" sex (if there even is such a thing), I am advocating the teaching of respect when it comes to sex.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Silent H, posted 09-09-2005 9:11 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Silent H, posted 09-09-2005 10:01 AM Yaro has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 54 of 130 (241743)
09-09-2005 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Yaro
09-09-2005 8:56 AM


I don't think sex education should be promoting orgies and anonymous sex either; but I also don't think it should be discouraging them. Sex ed should teach people about sex, about the risks and about safe sex.
Teaching should be neutral with respect to how many partners or which.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 8:56 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 9:37 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 55 of 130 (241744)
09-09-2005 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Jack
09-09-2005 9:34 AM


Teaching should be neutral with respect to how many partners or which.
I agree. But as I told holms, I don't think Sex Ed. should advocate any particular "lifestyle". But I do think it should encurage proper attitudes about sex. i.e. Respect

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Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Chiroptera, posted 09-09-2005 9:42 AM Yaro has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 130 (241747)
09-09-2005 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Yaro
09-09-2005 9:37 AM


quote:
But I do think it should encurage proper attitudes about sex. i.e. Respect
I think all classes should be teaching respect. But what does this have to do with orgies and promiscuity?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 9:37 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 9:46 AM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 59 by Nuggin, posted 09-09-2005 9:58 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 57 of 130 (241750)
09-09-2005 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Chiroptera
09-09-2005 9:42 AM


But what does this have to do with orgies and promiscuity?
Schools shouldn't be advocating them, or any other, sexual lifestyle. However I feel they should foster a healthy attitude tword the act (however one chooses to express it).
As far as 'promiscuity', I think the word has a negative connotation. Weather it deserves the connotation or not, I don't know, but it has it. As such, perhapse a better word is in order.
This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-09-2005 09:46 AM

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 Message 56 by Chiroptera, posted 09-09-2005 9:42 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 58 of 130 (241755)
09-09-2005 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by CK
09-09-2005 7:08 AM


Re: Sex is sexy
Ah that magical cutoff point - the 1960s.
Those damn 60's! Before them there wasn't even sex or pregnancy!
The roaring 20s, never happened.
The wild west, fiction.
the phrase "world's oldest profession", misleading

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by CK, posted 09-09-2005 7:08 AM CK has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 59 of 130 (241756)
09-09-2005 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Chiroptera
09-09-2005 9:42 AM


Except maybe French!
I think all classes should be teaching respect.
Hard to teach respect and French in the same class room.

This message is a reply to:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 60 of 130 (241757)
09-09-2005 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Yaro
09-09-2005 9:29 AM


After all, the definition of promiscuous includes an aire of irresponsebility.
Did you miss my post replying to your assertion? The definition does not. There were three. The first one doesn't really, except on how you interpret the second half of the def, the second one may depending on how your interpret it, and the third has none at all.
I don't think teachers should be promoting any particular sex lifestyle.
absolutely agreed then.
Perhapse the connotation is purely cultural in nature, none the less, it still portrays a negative image.
Promiscuous does not sound bad to me, but it does to you. The definition is neutral, and so what you are experiencing is cultural effects, perhaps even personal effects. Why should we change words, instead of you just changing your attitude?
the teachers should instill in them a sense of respect and responsability.
But what does that mean? I would agree but what I think is respect and responsibility is something very different from what you or someone else might think.
To a fundie respect and responsibility may be not engaging in homosexual acts which demeans onesself and ones partners. I might note at this time that homosexuality has a negative air to it, including irresponsibility, to many people. Should we come up for a new word for that?
I am advocating the teaching of respect when it comes to sex.
I am all for that, but I just do not see how that can be done in a consistent way that is acceptable to everyone, accept a basic idea that one should not violate the rights of others and try to be honest and understanding of the desires of others.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 9:29 AM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Yaro, posted 09-09-2005 10:03 AM Silent H has not replied

  
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