Sex Education

You naild it. That's what I'm talking about.

This was not name calling. It was a comment on a well-known quality of human nature. I didn't have anybody particular in mind. By no means. A doctor is supposed to look at a breast as a gland. A doctor's position is a totally different situation. I'm talking about the prevalence in films, etc. When I go to a movie--say, a mystery--and am treated with the obligatory nude scene, I am disgusted (a prudish reaction). However, I must admit that my reaction is aesthetic rather than moral.

What stats?

it's rude where I come from to answer a question with a question (since you love to lecture me about good manners I think it's only fair that I do the same to you).Do you think that the rates of Teen Pregencies were high or low since 1960?Do you think the overall rate of teen pregencies has increased or decreased since the 1960s?You answer my questions and I'll permit you to ask one back.This message has been edited by CK, 09-Sep-2005 01:13 PM

My most humble apologies, Charles.Answer to your question: I don't know.Now, what stats?

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The rate of teen childbearing in the United States has fallen steeply since the late 1950s, from an all time high of 96 births per 1,000 women aged 15—19 in 1957 to an all time low of 49 in 2000. Birthrates fell steadily throughout the 1960s and 1970s;

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They were fairly steady in the early 1980s and then rose sharply between 1988 and 1991 before declining throughout the 1990s. In recent years, this downward trend has occurred among teens of all ages and races.

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Boonstra, H. Teen Pregnancy: Trends And Lessons Learned U.S. Department of Health and Human Services under grant FPR00072.

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and those may be of more general interest to us (to place what happened in the 1960s in proper context):

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:Behind the movement of the 1880s lay the agitation around the Contagious Diseases Acts aswell as religious ‘revivalism’. The campaign for the repeal of these Acts of the 1860s which allowed compulsory examination of women suspected of working as prostitutes in garrison towns and ports, gave women the experience of thinking and speaking about previously tabooed topics. Women in the Ladies National Association inspired by Josephine Butler, were united in indignation against the double standard of sexual morality, men’s use of prostitutes and the sexual abuse of children.

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But..but..it was the 1880s! It was better wanna it.. Those women were fighting against something that wasn't a problem until the 1960s

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Hopkins advised the Ladies Associations to set up Vigilance Associations in their towns, where they did not already exist, to concern themselves with indecent printed matter and shows, brothel-visiting, and prosecution of sex offenders.

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Sheila Jeffreys, 'Free from all uninvited touch of man': Women's campaigns around sexuality, 1880-1914, Women's Studies International Forum, Volume 5, Issue 6, 1982, Pages 629-645.And yes people saw "traditional" marriage as a wonderful thing..oh wait...

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Now this may very probably be a survival of the old evil doctrine of the subjection of women and the absolute supremacy of the head of the family over all members of it . In all nations of progressive civilization the history of their progress has consisted in the gradual emancipation of sons, servants, daughters and wives from their former subjection’

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Fawcett. Millicent. 1892. On the amendments Required in the Criminal law. Amendment Act 1X85. Women’s Printing Society. London.[/quote]

Good stuff, CK. Of course, the decline in births might have more to do with scientific advancement than culture. There was something that arose about that time called the birth control pill.Thank God for the pill.

General insults are just as much name calling as specified insults. You attempted to defend prudishness by saying that they can still be shocked, and immature people consider shock to be something only neophytes experience.Unless you have some evidence regarding immaturity and that position, I am afraid that really is namecalling. That makes no sense. A doctor sees breasts and trains him or herself to view breasts as glands. Now that is either a good thing or it is not for a person's sexual health (that is what you said). It can't suddenly be good for the doctor's sex life because in other situations he is a doctor. This may surprise you but I agree. Well nudity itself does not bother me, but when its presence feels forced, perhaps obligatory, then it bothers me aesthetically as well. That's the same for packing every single type of human emotion into every damn film. You can't just have an action picture, but you have to have a romance and a comedy as well! Gag.However when it is appropriate for the movie I am all for it. And contrary to your assertion breasts never start looking like glands to me. Yes the "shock" would wear down to nothing, but what does that mean?In case you still don't get the doctor scenario, how about nudists? They see all nudity at all times. Is their lack of shock something detrimental?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I don't have any studies or stats or anything, but would you agree with this observation?Teenagers (as a whole) want to be perceived as being unshockable. I haven't quizzed any doctors about their sex lives, and the only anecdotal evidence I have would tend to support your view. My wife works for a doctor--a woman's doctor, no less--who has a reputation as a notorious womanizer.However, I don't think that matters to my point, which is that the atmosphere in which a doctor sees a woman's breast is non-sexual and non-romantic, and that makes all the difference. I am speaking of the condition of being jaded, which I do think unhealthy, not just sexually but generally.It is easy to be jaded in the modern world.edit: spellingThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 09-09-2005 02:30 PM

But that's what I'm talking about, partly.I agree that if I grew up with a bunch of nudists, I would think nothing of it. I agree that it is all culture-specific. One can never separate oneself from one's culture, except artificially and theoretically.

I think all people have erotic pleasures as well. For nudists, I'm sure being clothed and hidden is erotic. Hence how puritain behavior and dress can be extremely erotic to some people. They've got used to nudity.Eroticism doesn't disappear. It's always there.So don't worry about not looking at boobs, RR. There'll always be ways to get turned on. Like... covering them back up. HOTTT!!

Yes, I see your point. It's a cycle. I do like cleavage.Perhaps I am the jaded one, although I don't see how I could be. I don't do all this wild stuff like Holmes does.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would it be "kosher" to start a thread SPECIFICALLY about what wild stuff holmes does? By "kosher" I'm CERTANILY not referring to the contents of the thread; I really hope they are NOT kosher. I mean more like... are we gonna actually get any good details before things get shut down?I'm really curious as to what's going over there in the nether-regions.. er.. Netherlands.Ben

I'm not sure that's such a good idea. Holmes can be rather graphic at times. I don't know if I could handle it.He makes porn movies. I call that wild. But in the circle he runs in, that may be no big deal.

No, I would not agree with that statement. Many teens feel quite good about feeling shocked, and seeming to be shocked, especially things they might like to do but are afraid others will dislike them for. What does jadedness have to do with an open sexuality? Or experience with nudity?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)