Oh my how things have changed!!!

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Well these days are gone. The woman (both parents) almost has to work now, just so we can survive. That's what pisses me off.I wish I could stay home and raise my kids, and so does my wife.

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Well, then, lobby for the ERA.That way employers would be legally required to pay women equal pay for equal work.

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If a kid had been abducted 50 years ago it would have been all over the papers. It might have taken an additional day to get into them, but it would have been a much bigger story because it was so rare.

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Well, I think I'd like to compare some statistics from the 50's and now. Do you have any?

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Since we decided to insert our "secular" constitution into our Christian morality.

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How are Christian marriages affected if gay marriages are recognized by the government?Nobody is forcing Christians to change their morality.It is Christians that are forcing their morality onto civil marriage by discriminating against ga marriage.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

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Men are superfulous today. Woman lead men in education and college enrollment.

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But they are being kept from advancing to the highest levels of power and influence in their professions, including, but not limited to, academia.

I wrote:

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That has nothing to do with what I said or this thread, stop it.

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kuresu wrote: ...to which you replied:

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Since we decided to insert our "secular" constitution into our Christian morality.

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I'm sorry if I thought you were responding to kuresu's comment regarding the Christian-led ban on gay marriage, considering that's exactly what you did.Then I wrote:

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When did I say they were? Also off-topic

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You said it here:

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Since we decided to insert our "secular" constitution into our Christian morality.

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Marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman for a very long time. Change does not come easy. Although I have decided to live and let live, I think others need convincing that people are genetically gay, and deserve the same rights based on something they cannot change about themselves.

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It doesn't matter if they are "genetically gay" or not.

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I also wouldn't use the term Christians, and would use the term people. Since we cannot determine what a true Christian is, and that there are Christians who are fine with it, then you have to stop discrimination, and lumoing all Christians into a category, it's called predjudice.

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I'll use the word "homophobe".Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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If they just like being gay, then it's just a choice, and we all know how gay people feel about it being called a choice.

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I actually don't know how gay people feel about that.Do you?

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Plus then we would have to marry everyone based on what they like.

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Currently, we allow two consenting heterosexual adults to marry based upon what they like.What problems do you forsee if we allow any two consenting adults, regardless of gender, to marry?

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Most people are not afraid of gays, they just don't like them, don't agree with it, do not understand it, hate it, etc.

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LOL!People who don't like, don't agree with, do not understand, or hate something do so out of fear, rat.Fear is at the heart of that entire list.

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Homophobe is another aggresive term used by you, to do nothing more than start trouble between two groups of people. Grow up.

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I use the term because it is accurate.

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Bullshit.

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How so?

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Isn't it perfectly possible that someone could not fear gay people, yet not agree with it?

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Yes.But most of the time, I believe, it is fear that is the motivator of anti-homosexual beliefs in people.Also, you said:

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Most people are not afraid of gays, they just don't like them, don't agree with it, do not understand it, hate it, etc.

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Hate is almost always fear-based.Dislike is almost always fear-based.If people don't understand others' behavior, they often fear it.

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To be fair, I will note that people do have those things stemming from fear, I amnot saying you are totally wrong, just that you are categorizing people, and name calling with only one piece of evidence. I find that just as disturbing as racism. It stems from the same relm of thinking.

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It's not "only one piece of evidence", rat.The reason Bush and the Republicans won the last election is because many of the people who voted for them were terrified that gay people might be given equal rights to marry the person of their choice in America.

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I am just as afraid of the current status of marraige, as I am of the unkown status of same sex marraige, and where this is all going to lead us.

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I asked the following in a previous message. What are you worried about?

gasby wrote:

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Until you start paying my bills around here, then I will continue to teach my kids those things, and why. You make it out to be something wrong, and it's not.

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It is wrong to teach your children to be homophobic.If you have a gay child, they will suffer because you are prejudiced against people of a different sexual preference that you.You do know that the suicide rate of gay teenagers is quite high, don't you?

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I can raise my kids how ever I choose. Once they are on their own, then they can live however they choose. That's life.

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And we can disapprove all we want if you choose to tell us about it.

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Ask the pentagon. They have listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. Aren't there cures for disorders?

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Why should we listen to the pentagon regarding psychology?

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Being terrified of gay marrying, and being terrified of gay people are, to me, two different things.

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The former is a subset of the latter.If they weren't homophobic, they wouldn't have a problem with gays marrying.

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If you don't see black as being white, then fear has nothing to do with it.

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Thais makes no sense to me.

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Some people feel that gays have as much right to marry as 2 monkeys.
Doesn't mean they are afraid of it.

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Of course they fear it.They fear that heterosexual marriage will somehow be destroyed is gays are permitted to marry....just like many people used to (and many still do) fear that the purity of the white race will be diluted if blacks and whites are allowed to marry.

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The subtly of the gradual.

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This sentence no verb.Sorry, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.What, specifically, do you think will happen to damage heterosexual marriage if gays are allowed to marry?

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I am not teaching them to be homophobic, I am not predjudice,

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Yes, you are, if you teach that you think it is wrong, and that it is going against God. This is similar to how people pass on racism to their children.Parents don't have to wear white hoods or use the word "nigger" to make it clear to their children that blacks as a group are not good people. Likewise, parents don't have to carry "God Hates Fags" posters at funerals for them to convey the message to their children that being gay is wrong and shameful.It is certainly your right to teach such things, but I wish you would just be honest and admit that this is what you are doing.

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and the suicide rate of all teenagers is quite high, because parents just don't care enough.

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The attempted suicide rate for gay teens is four times higher than that of hetero teens. We don't have a good idea of the completed suicide rate because they don't ask about sexual orientation on the death certificate. link

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How ignorant of you to think I don't.

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You do?What have you done?

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I don't have a problem with anyone getting paid what they deserve.

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Good.Does that mean that you would be willing to take a pay cut?

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They don't have to have a fear of people being gay to think that liberalizing marriage will have negetive affects.

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True.But I think that denying people equal rights because something bad might happen is unacceptable in our secular constitutional democracy.And I've really never been able to get anybody to elaborate upon what those "negative effects" will be.

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I think its more of a worry about marriage, in general, which I guess is heterosexual, in general, but its not neccessarily about the heterosexual part specifically.

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OK, so do you think they are they afraid that hetero marrige will be destroyed or not, because your statement is very murky.

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I think he means that the liberal changes to marriage are gradual and the results are subtle. These are changes that I would prefer to not be made, too.

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WHAT changes?Be specific.

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I think its the fear of change, or the desire for conservation that is at the heart of it, not a hate of gay people.

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What it does in practice, though, is deny equal rights to homosexuals.

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I don't see why specific damages need to be listed, especially when some of them might not be able to be foreseen. Its more of a conservative vs liberal approach, IMHO.

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If you say "it will be bad if gays marry" am I just supposed to say "Oh, well, if you say it's going to be bad, then it must be true."?If you make the claim that allowing gays to marry will result in bad things, you should be able to elaborate upon what those bad things are if you want anyone to believe you.Otherwise, you're just Chicken Little.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.