Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,488 Year: 3,745/9,624 Month: 616/974 Week: 229/276 Day: 5/64 Hour: 3/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   for the record (re: guns thread)
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 84 of 305 (399514)
05-06-2007 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Hyroglyphx
05-06-2007 2:25 AM


Menace To Society
nemesis writes:
The point that seems to still being overlooked by certain individuals here at EvC is what we can learn by understanding the tone of the times-- looking at the ethos of any given society.
Societal introspection?
nemesis writes:
Look no further than the counter-culture that we are allowing to fester.
Its not the counter-culture. Its the culture!
nemesis writes:
Look at television, the movies, music videos, video games, etc, that are painting pictures for these young one's that they can empower themselves through the threat of violence. And as we often see in the gang culture-- live by the sword, die by the sword.
But they all get so bored when I put on Jesus movies portrayed by some white English Actor! They would rather watch Scarface! (which, unbelievably, the State of Colorado allows to be shown in the detention center! )
nemesis writes:
The irony of it is that the loudest opponents to guns are often the one's defending and coddling the very culture that perpetuates this violence.
Do we go with legislation of morality? Or do we attempt to influence each other on a grassroots level and leave the government out of it?

Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
* * * * * * * * * *
“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”
--General Omar Bradley

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-06-2007 2:25 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 85 of 305 (399515)
05-06-2007 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Vacate
05-06-2007 3:51 AM


Re: A hot topic, eh?
vacate writes:
I am sure that any rational person would admit that once the "dots are connected" its quite obvious that a shift in our culture is the root cause for increased gun violence. What is the proposal being put forth? How do we reach the end goal of eliminating gun violence?
After Columbine High School happened in Littleton, Colorado---not fifteen miles from where I live--one of my mentors who had initially gotten me to go to the youth detention centers with him (which I now do on my own and have done for 12 years) quit. He simply gave up.
Of course, he was experiencing problems in his marriage and couldn't devote his time to interacting with locked up urban teenagers.
I have the time. My critics may say that they could do it better than I. My response? Well go do it, then! The key to helping society reduce gun violence is to be someone who has a chance to talk to a Dylan Klebold, an Eric Harris, or a Jason Cho before they get desperate enough to pull the trigger.
If you have kids, get to know their friends. Rather than shunning the worst ones, show them some love and understanding. Empathize with them.
Its like Jar says: Its ok to fail. But its not ok not to try. If after our best efforts, the neighborhood kid shoots up the school, we at least can say that we did our best to try and prevent him from doing so.
Legislating access to guns may be a short term solution, but there are issues regarding personal freedoms.
Throwing away all the violent video games may work with your own kids, but we as a society can't get very far through censorship.
Societal values will only change collectively. The direction we go is up to the voters.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Vacate, posted 05-06-2007 3:51 AM Vacate has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 112 of 305 (399575)
05-06-2007 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Jon
05-06-2007 4:56 PM


Legislation or Grassroots empathy?
Nuggin,responding to Jon writes:
Your system has failed miserably and continues to fail miserably, but you refuse to change it. You are sure you aren't working at the White House?
So are you saying that your real gripe is political?
townhall dot com writes:
Laws are not meant primarily to change hearts. They are meant to change behavior, and they accomplish that very well.
The issue is legislation. The problem with legislation is that it effects everyone. Its like a Cancer drug. The drug kills off the cancer cells and also kills many of the healthy cells. Do we really want to give society a shot of chemotherapy that hurts all of our freedoms in order to attempt to limit a few bad apples?
Thomas Sowell writes:
Do gun control laws actually control guns? Why would someone who is obviously willing to repeatedly break the laws against murder be unwilling to break gun control laws?
One more point that Sowell makes:
Sowell writes:
Killings seldom start where someone else is known in advance to be carrying a gun. Have you ever heard of one of these supposedly "senseless" killers opening fire on a gathering of members of the National Rifle Association? They always seem to have better sense than to do that.
My point, aside from jumping into an argument that I am no expert on, is to ask why the focus needs to be on the guns and not on the mental condition of people who abuse them?
Edited by Phat, : visual appearance

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Jon, posted 05-06-2007 4:56 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Nuggin, posted 05-06-2007 7:50 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 129 by nator, posted 05-06-2007 10:24 PM Phat has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024