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Author Topic:   for the record (re: guns thread)
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 305 (399224)
05-04-2007 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
05-04-2007 12:53 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Jar,
Thanks for the series of actually rational posts on gun ownership.
Glad to see you don't hold the belief that inanimate objects can be "evil".
Guns are merely tools. That some people never had a use for a particular tool (due to their limited life expierence) does not mean it's not a tool.
Guns are a very effective means of procuring food, unless you think it just shows up magically at the supermarket wrapped in plastic.
As far as defense or protection goes, if they were not effective for that why would the Armed Forces and police use them? Well, they do, because they work.
Martin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 05-04-2007 12:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 31 by Nuggin, posted 05-04-2007 5:31 PM petrophysics1 has replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 305 (399241)
05-04-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Larni
05-04-2007 12:30 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Larni,
This is an FYI post concerning some Americans. Me in particular.
I belong to a UK forum on classic motorcycles, most members are from the UK. It seems every week someone over there has their car, bike etc. stolden. Seens strange to me as I've lived in the US nearly 58 years and have never had anything taken from me. Don't even ever lock my house (either the one in Wyoming or the other in Colorado).
What do you think about that compared to where you live?
Now I do own guns, and all of my immediate neighbors both in Wyoming and Colorado do as well. Know them all quite well, and it doesn't bother me in the least. In fact it makes my homes safer since I know others will respond as well as me if something happens. In Colorado if I called 911 and then ordered a pizza, the pizza would get there before the police. In Wyoming I can't even get the pizza.
So if something bad happens, there is only us to take care of it. I understand it may not be like that were you live, but it is here. Police it seems to me show up to examine the crime scene, they rarely save someones life. You know, they can't be everywhere.
I grew up in Upstate NY. I bought my first rifle when I was 13 years old. A Marlin model 99 .22 for squirril and rabbit hunting, still have it. Bought it myself. Didn't need my parents or anyone else. Just went in and bought it. That was 1962. Could have bought a British WW2 Enfield .303 for less than $20 by mail order, and had it shipped to my house. No big deal. Basically no gun control.
Did you hear about massive school shootings then. No! So what's different now? We have a lot more gun control.
Try this on as well. In 1967 I went to the Colorado School of Mines to get a degree in geological engineering. While I was there I could go down to the Golden Feed and Grain Store and for $7.24 buy 10 sticks of 70% Gelex(dynamite), 10 blasting caps and 50 feet of primer cord. Did it many times.Basically little or no control on buying dynamite, maybe you had to be 18 I don't remember.
Did you hear about schools or Federal buildings being blown up then? No! So what's different today?
The reason I ask is the laws are much more restrictive on what you can buy now, but it seems we are seeing more pointless violence. 40 years ago I could buy about anything I wanted. So is more gun control the answer or is it something else?
BTW just so you know other uses for guns when I was a kid I worked on a farm every summer. Lots of times had to shoot rabbits which were eating the lettuce or woodchucks which loved young cauliflower plants, or crows that liked eating corn. On the rabbits I used my .22, on woodchucks my dad's 8 mm Mauser( these were long shots and .22 couldn't do it), and on crows a 12 gauge.
On my place in Colorado occasionally I get tent catapillars in my aspen trees. Can't get up there with a ladder so just blow them away with my 410 shotgun. It works very well. Also I take care of the woodpeckers that like putting holes in my cedar siding the same way.
Use a 30-30 for deer hunting, my 8 mm Mauser for elk, a 12 gauge for skeet shooting, and a 1911m1 Colt .45 ACP pistol for when the wife and I are out hiking. You see she got a little concerned when a jogger was killed by a mountain lion not to far from our place in Colorado. I understood since I've often seen mountain lion (and bear too) tracks or scat on my property.
Oh! Sorry I forgot(sarcasm) the ONLY reason for having that 45 pistol is to kill people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Larni, posted 05-04-2007 12:30 PM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 05-04-2007 3:49 PM petrophysics1 has replied
 Message 34 by Nuggin, posted 05-04-2007 5:49 PM petrophysics1 has replied
 Message 61 by kuresu, posted 05-05-2007 2:06 AM petrophysics1 has replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 305 (399247)
05-04-2007 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
05-04-2007 3:49 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Crashfrog,
Boy you sure got me. I didn't know about the 2 school shootings in the 60s, just about the 17 since Columbine in 1999.
Edit: I actually found a better source so that should be 36 school shootings since Columbine (if I counted correctly)
The following table lists the worldwide school shootings from 1996 to the present. Find the date, location, and a short description of each incident.
Edited by petrophysics, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 305 (399269)
05-04-2007 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Nuggin
05-04-2007 5:31 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Guns are a very effective means of procuring food
In Wyoming, sure. In Los Angeles, not so much.
Rats and pigeons are edible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Nuggin, posted 05-04-2007 5:31 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Nuggin, posted 05-04-2007 6:01 PM petrophysics1 has replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 305 (399275)
05-04-2007 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Nuggin
05-04-2007 5:49 PM


Re: On why own guns.
However, attacks do happen. But there's no reason that any of the other guns you mentioned would not be just as effective at warding off an attack.
The only reason you are bringing an hand gun in that situation is that it is more convenient for you to carry it. That's fine.
But the other factor of a hand gun is that it's more convenient for you to hide it so that other people don't know you have it.
That's the problem I have with them. If it's for your protections, why would you need to hide it. Hiding it makes it worthless as a detourant.
The only reason you need to hide your .45 is to use it on people. It's not like the mountain lion is going to say "uh oh, he's got a gun."
Sounds good if I had a concealed weapons permit, but I don't. That means in both Colorado and Wyoming my pistol must be in plain sight which it always is. Otherwise I'm breaking the law and can be arrested. Some towns or cities have restrictions on this but I never carry a gun in town.
Only problem with carrying a rifle on a hike when it's not hunting season is people can see it from far away and might think you're poaching or something and call the dept. of wildlife. Plus I have to consider that a discharged rifle round can travel a mile and a half and other people live in the area. You probably didn't think of that, did you?
Like all gun owners I've met, we're safer than you think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Nuggin, posted 05-04-2007 5:49 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 305 (399278)
05-04-2007 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Nuggin
05-04-2007 6:01 PM


Re: On why own guns.
You really really really don't want to eat a city pigeon.
My father was one of seven kids, born in 1915. His father only worked 3 days a week for the Erie RR. To make ends meet they used to make rye whiskey. After they were done they put the mash out side and the pigeons would eat it. They would get so drunk they couldn't fly and so they got clubbed and eaten.
THIS IS AN OFF TOPIC POST >>>>DO NOT REPLY
Beat admin to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Nuggin, posted 05-04-2007 6:01 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 305 (399280)
05-04-2007 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Nuggin
05-04-2007 5:49 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Just a couple of points.
When I come out of the house the woodpeckers fly to the nearest tree.
That's where I blast them, not when they're on the house. What do you think I'm a idiot?
Ever shoot a woodchuck with a .22 at 50-75 yards or more. They don't die immediately. I don't shoot animals for fun and I don't want them to suffer. But we couldn't afford the time and money to replant 8 acres of cauliflower. When the plants are small they will eat them all in no time. When they're big it's no big deal if they eat a few leaves.
So you think the media is part of the problem with shootings?
No problem, I agree.
In 1966 I was 17 and remember the Austin shooting. I gave you a list of 36 school shooting in the last 8 years. Try digging up that many for the decade of the sixties. Bet you can't, so my point stands.
There are more school shootings now. How come? You mentioned the media. What do you think about some of these being related to the use of fluoxetine as an antidepresent? It can cause violent psychopathic behavior in some people. Maybe 1 in 1000, but give it to a million people and you just might make 1000 nuts.
Breggin.com | Breggin.com - Refounding America - Rediscovering Ourselves
"The report [51] provided a clinical window into the development of obsessive violence and a schoolshooter
mentality. A twelve-year-old boy on fluoxetine developed nightmares about becoming a school
shooter and then began to lose track of reality concerning these events. This case occurred in a controlled clinical
trial and the investigators did not know that the child was getting fluoxetine until they broke the
double-blind code. The child’s reaction occurred long before any of the well-known school shootings
had taken place. Therefore, his reaction was not inspired by the school shootings; it was not a “copycat”:"
"Thirty-eight days after beginning the protocol, F. experienced a violent nightmare about killing his classmates
until he himself was shot. He awakened from it only with difficulty, and the dream continued to feel “very real.”
He reported having had several days of increasingly vivid “bad dreams” before this episode; these included
images of killing himself and his parents dying. When he was seen later that day he was agitated and anxious,
refused to go to school, and reportedmarked suicidal ideation that made him feel unsafe at home as well (p. 180)."
Edited by petrophysics, : No reason given.
Edited by petrophysics, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 305 (399285)
05-04-2007 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Nuggin
05-04-2007 7:10 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Please note that my motorcycle is kept at my house in Colorado which is in Jefferson County. The most populated I believe after Denver County.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 305 (399453)
05-05-2007 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by kuresu
05-05-2007 2:06 AM


Re: On why own guns.
kuresu
Let's see. My point was that there are more school shootings now than in the sixties. I also pointed out that there is more gun control now than then. I never said gun control caused more shooting.
Where did you get that?
I posted a link which listed 36 shootings since Columbine, that's 8 years and asked to see evidence of a like number in the sixties (60-69).
Sooooooooo, your list has one (Austin 8/1/66). What do you suppose that means? Think it might mean more school shootings today?
Let's take a look at your data.
Hmmmm, 16 shootings since Columbine, 1999. Hey that's 16 in 8 years or 2 per year.
13 before Colombine in 33 years. That's .3939 per year.
Thanks for proving my point!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by kuresu, posted 05-05-2007 2:06 AM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by kuresu, posted 05-05-2007 7:03 PM petrophysics1 has not replied
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 05-05-2007 8:42 PM petrophysics1 has replied
 Message 75 by nator, posted 05-05-2007 9:07 PM petrophysics1 has not replied
 Message 80 by Nuggin, posted 05-06-2007 1:51 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 305 (399492)
05-05-2007 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by crashfrog
05-05-2007 8:42 PM


Re: On why own guns.
Well, you are a little more than a bit confused.
I said school violence was up compared to the sixties.
You said...No, it's just a media reporting thing, and the number of shootings is the same.
So I came back and posted a link with 36 school shootings since Columbine.
I asked you to show me an equal amount more or less in the sixties.
You haven't.
After 2 pages you guys have ONE.......Austin 8/1/66.
You haven't answered my question, but I'll ask another.
Show me the quote where I said more gun control = more shootings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 05-05-2007 8:42 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by crashfrog, posted 05-05-2007 11:55 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 305 (399493)
05-05-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by kuresu
05-05-2007 7:45 PM


Re: On why own guns.
petro never made any statements about the minds of the shooters. Just that back then, you didn't hear about them (shootings, that is).
Look, I understand what going to a liberal socialist shithole like CU is like, I have a degree from there. I know what it can do to your mind.
BUT, I still expect you to READ the posts in this thread.
As an exercise tell me everything I posted about fluoxetine.
To quote you...."petro never made any statements about the minds of the shooters"
I asked about it more than once.
kuresu
Do me a favor, if you are not reading the thread DON'T comment.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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