What is Liberal?

I'll let you in on a secret. Secularism doesn't stay secularism. It may marginalize Christianity but it won't keep down paganism or Islam, and Islam in the hands of some of its more aggressive members seeks to run the world, so happy bowing to Mecca five times a day. Of course occultic paganism if it should rear up a Caesar or a Hitler could be interesting too.
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Why the hell would we want to "keep down" paganism or Islam? Or atheism, or Hindu, or Buddhism, or anything else?

Are you REALLY advocating a "convert or you don't have any rights" mentality?

Because that sounds awfully similar to the mindset of certain terrorists we've all come to know and hate. Hitler was a Christian (no, not a very good one), not a pagan, and used Christian rhetoric in his speaches and policies.

So we might not be thrown to the lions but we might be beheaded or something even more gruesome. But it's all a fine fate for a Christian. Life or death, Christians are happy. It's interesting here, it's glorious There.

WHAT "sexual taboos?"

Lutheranism was the German Reformation

the English Reformation resulted in the Church of England

and Puritanism was a later reaction against remnants of Catholicism in the Church of England

It was the Church of England's oppression of the Puritans that finally drove them to America

And that's almost FUNNY, to say that the Quakers are CALVINIST!!! The Calvinists regarded them as HERETICS.

I go to a Reformed/Calvinist church.

The central tenet of Puritanism was God's supreme authority over human affairs, particularly in the church, and especially as expressed in the Bible. They believed, for example, that the worship of the church ought to be strictly regulated by what is clearly commanded in Scripture. Where their opponents defended many worship practices based on tradition alone, the Puritans considered these practices to be idolatry, regardless of their antiquity or how widespread they were among Christians. Thus, Puritan reforms were typified by a minimum of ritual and decoration, and an unambiguous emphasis on preaching. Besides the worship and government of the church, the Puritans also emphasized that the individual should be reformed by the grace of God. Each person, upon whom God shows mercy, should have a sense of his own unworthiness and a confidence that the forgiveness which is in Christ has been particularly applied to him; so that out of gratitude, a humble and obedient life would arise. Other important beliefs included:* Bible reading
* Personal morality
* Education and enlightenment for the masses
* Simple clothes for priests
* Simple ceremonies in Church
* Simple decorations (if any) in Churches
* Children being silent during meals
* No regard to women
* No "superstition" (e.g.: rejection of transubstantiation)
* Abolition of Church Hierarchy
* Opposition to the Monarch being head of the ChurchMost groups also believed the Divine Right of Kings was heresy; this became more pronounced during the reign of Charles I. Banned in their New England colonies;* Drama
* Religious music
* Erotic poetry.Drama and erotic poetry was believed to lead to immorality. Music in worship was not conducive to listening to God. Knowledge of Greek and Latin was important to them. Diversions included Bible discussions and reading the great Greek classics including Cicero, Virgil, and Ovid. They were encouraged to write their own poetry of religious nature. In modern usage, "Puritan" is often used as an informal pejorative term for someone who has strict views on sexual morality, disapproves of recreation, and wishes to impose these beliefs on others. None of these qualities were unique to Puritanism or universally characteristic of Puritans, whose moral views and ascetic tendencies (See Asceticism) were no more extreme than many other Protestant reformers of their time, and who were relatively tolerant of other faithsat least in England; the popular image is slightly more accurate as a description of Puritans in colonial America, whose social experiment took the form of a Calvinist theocracy.Controversy

Man, this hostility to the way we all came into the world is really sad. To treat the developing child as a hostile parasite is SO sad, and it's all the product of Leftist Sixties Feminist propaganda. Wow.

I have no idea what you are getting at. You can look the word up in a dictionary. I don't care about the definition. There are spontaneous abortions and induced abortions. We are discussing intentional induced abortions. If you want to discuss something else, stop playing games and spell it out.

No, no. It's part of the womans body until it is born, like her pancreas or heart. It shares her blood, etc. When it is born, it is no longer part of her body.

And yes, it is miraculous.

No need to keep down the latter three, they don't threaten anything, except there are some militant atheists who should sit down and shut up in my opinion. But paganism is what Christianity overcame in Europe in order to civilize it. Of course there's always the paganism of Greece or Rome but that's not the kind I meant. I meant the kind that worships oak trees and talks to spirits. That's been coming back. It has expressions like the occultism of Hitler at the extreme. I guess the dangers are lost on a secularist though. And Islam, well that's being debated on this site and apparently nobody here sees any danger in it, but since it is inherently imperialistic and aims to take the world for Allah THAT is why I am for keeping it restrained. It is what will take over the country when you THINK secularism has triumphed.

Not at all. I'm explaining a danger people don't seem to be aware of, and predicting its appearance when you least expect it as the result of the secularist attitude, not proposing any kind of action at the moment, simply analyzing the situation to suggest the naivete of secularism.

Hitler called himself a Christian and used Christian rhetoric for political reasons, and kept up his Catholic identity but he was in fact a thorough pagan who identified with the old German gods and practiced occult arts. It's really frustrating trying to talk to people who don't believe in the supernatural sometimes.

I'm trying to tell you that what you want can't happen, that there are consequences you are unable to foresee. Again, it's frustrating talking to someone who doesn't believe in the supernatural or in crucial differences between religions for that matter.

And most of them think it's not *really* a child or they couldn't do it. You have missed my point. The point is that the abortion "industry" withholds the facts about the fetus' being a child in the hope of avoiding messy emotions. You missed the satire.

Just ask me. I went through one as a young woman and I thought I was very enlightened, *knew* it was just a lump of tissue, *knew* it was the rational thing to do. It was within the first trimester too, all right and proper. Funny how the time factor seems to mean so much to everyone though it's just a smokescreen. Afterward I had a vivid dream about the child I had been carrying, although I had thought I was convinced it wasn't a child. Even then I didn't "let it bother me," simply denied it as most women do. Took many years before I faced my own subconscious knowledge that I'd killed my own child.

This sanctimonious hooha about its not being taken "lightly," this "procedure" as it is so deviously called, is simply another way denial is forced on women, as they are not made to face the fact that they themselves recognize underneath their denial, that this IS a child they are aborting. Why is it a grave decision if it's not a child, and why nevertheless is it called a "clump of cells" and killing it a "procedure" if it is? The terminology is schizophrenogenic and deceitful.

Deists aren't Christians. Some are closer to it than others, however. Jefferson was on the other end of the spectrum.

You don't REALLY mean the absense of "BY" as if it weren't the Pilgrims who founded the universites?? Who then? The Indians?

I said Puritans founded it. Puritans founded it. The quote says they taught in accord with Puritan philosophy and turned out Puritan ministers. Do you have a point?

Just ask me. I went through one as a young woman and I thought I was very enlightened, *knew* it was just a lump of tissue, *knew* it was the rational thing to do. It was within the first trimester too, all right and proper. Funny how the time factor seems to mean so much to everyone though it's just a smokescreen.

Afterward I had a vivid dream about the child I had been carrying, although I had thought I was convinced it wasn't a child. Even then I didn't "let it bother me," simply denied it as most women do. Took many years before I faced my own subconscious knowledge that I'd killed my own child.

Well I was simply dramatizing the hostile view that is cultivated toward the unborn to justify abortion, characterizing it as a parasite -- unless the child is wanted, in which case all the normal parental feelings are given full expression, and how ironic this is that two such completely opposite attitudes can be applied to the exact same physical situation with a straight face.

faith writes:the English Reformation resulted in the Church of England