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Author Topic:   Why does Richard Dawkins sing Christmas carols?
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 120 of 301 (441890)
12-19-2007 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
12-15-2007 7:15 AM


I don't find it hypocritical at all, no.
Christimas, no matter its pagan and Christian roots, is a Western cultural tradition and can easily be celebrated in an entirely secular manner. I have done so for many years. I even put little cherub and angel ornaments on my tree.
Most adult Christians don't believe in Santa Claus, yet they still give gifts at this time of year. Most adult people in the west are not pagans celebrating Solstice, yet they bring an evergreen into the house in the middle of winter.
Hmmm, I wonder if the very anti-Catholic fundies allow the concept of a Catholic saint to be spoken of?
And yes, it can have deep meaning, even to the non-believer, atheist-types.
"Peace on Earth, good will to men" is not a religious statement.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 12-15-2007 7:15 AM Kitsune has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 121 of 301 (441897)
12-19-2007 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
12-16-2007 12:18 PM


quote:
To me, the entire months of November and December are really an extenstion of what we consider Thanksgiving to be here in the U.S. A time to slow down and relax (except that I am in the middle of finals, heh), a time to appreciate what we have and to remember those less unfortunate, to celebrate life with friends, and to have fun with dressing up and trick or treat at Halloween and putting up lights and holly at Christmas.
It must be nice to think of the holidays like that. I think I remember when I used to enjoy the holidays like most people, but it has been a long time.
I have grown to think of the holidays with a certain amount of resentment and dread, as this is the time of year that specialty food sales skyrocket, so it means long, hard hours and the stress of dealing with impatient, abusive customers.
I find I have less and less holiday spirit as the years go by, since it all just means a lot of work and being away from my family. It certainly doesn't help that customers constantly wish me "happy holidays" and "have a great weekend". Where do they think I'll be? Having a nice, relaxing couple of days or week off, enjoying the holiday like everybody else? No, I'll be working.
People in retail don't get to celebrate holidays at all, really.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 12-16-2007 12:18 PM Chiroptera has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 122 of 301 (441898)
12-19-2007 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Kitsune
12-16-2007 4:18 PM


quote:
Thanks but I'm honestly not interested in the PoV of an evangelical atheist.
How would you know what his POV is if you haven't read his books?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Kitsune, posted 12-16-2007 4:18 PM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Kitsune, posted 12-19-2007 9:28 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 123 of 301 (441901)
12-19-2007 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by LucyTheApe
12-18-2007 11:09 AM


Re: Spirituality
quote:
LindaLou, if it is enlightenment you’re looking for you’ve come to the wrong place.
No science forum or science discipline is going to give you that, no, not even evolutianity. You have to look beyond science for that. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Ps. Don't waste your post-it notes...or your time.
So, the period of European history called The Age of Enlightenment wasn't actually about breaking free from superstition and ignorance and enbracing reason and learning? It didn't see the birth of modern science and wasn't marked by the resuction in the authoritarian dictates of royalty and The Church and an increase in freedoms for individuals?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-18-2007 11:09 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2007 12:04 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 124 of 301 (441905)
12-19-2007 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Kitsune
12-19-2007 8:09 AM


Lucy is suggesting to you that you can find enlightenment by looking beyond science, and I can assure you that I'm genuinely curious as to how this is supposed to be done.
quote:
Try some meditation or tai chi.
How is this "looking beyond science"? Meditation and tai chi produce different brain states which therefore affect the rest of the body, one's perceptions, etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Kitsune, posted 12-19-2007 8:09 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Kitsune, posted 12-19-2007 9:24 AM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 127 of 301 (441914)
12-19-2007 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Kitsune
12-19-2007 9:28 AM


quote:
Because I've read about him and I've read conversations about him.
But without reading his avtual books, you don't really know what his point of view is, completely. It is like rejecting Evolution based upon reading a few quotes from scientists.
quote:
He believes that religion is a toxic mental delusion and a pathology. Do you honestly think that reading his book is going to cause me to change my mind about his ideas?
I don't know, and neither do you, unless you read his book(s).
quote:
It would make me depressed and angry and I'm not sure I feel like doing that to myself.
Good books are supposed to do that sort of thing. Books that threaten our worldview or give us a new way to look at things are the ones that are the best to read.
It wouldn't be like my reading books by people like Henry Morris, Deepak Chopra, or Rush Limbaugh; none of them are particularly good writers and their books are full of massive factual and logical errors.
Dawkins is a brilliant man and a very good writer.
quote:
Believe me, I know I'm not going to find any kind of inspiration from Dawkins' opinions about religion, though I'm happy to read about what he's contributed to science.
No, you actually don't have any idea if you might find any inspiration unless you actually are brave enough to read the book.
Surely, you aren't so afraid of mere ideas that you can't bear to expose yourself to them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Kitsune, posted 12-19-2007 9:28 AM Kitsune has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2007 12:07 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 135 of 301 (441936)
12-19-2007 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Kitsune
12-19-2007 8:09 AM


quote:
As I said in my previous post, it is insulting and, I believe, mistaken, to deride serious beliefs about life and the universe, common in intelligent and mature people for millennia, by equating such beliefs with made-up childish fallacies.
Does that mean that you are "mistaken" to debate Creationists about their "serious beliefs about life in the universe"?
Creationism has been extremely "common in intelligent and mature people for millennia".
Don't you believe Creationism to be based upon "made-up childish fallacies"?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Kitsune, posted 12-19-2007 8:09 AM Kitsune has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 136 of 301 (441937)
12-19-2007 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by riVeRraT
12-19-2007 10:47 AM


quote:
Faith is driven by evidence.
No, it isn't.
Faith is driven by emotion and personal opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by riVeRraT, posted 12-19-2007 10:47 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2007 12:14 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 142 of 301 (441977)
12-19-2007 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by macaroniandcheese
12-19-2007 12:04 PM


Re: Spirituality
quote:
they called it enlightenment because they thought they were awesome. mental masturbation and self-congratulatory drivel.
They were correct, though. It was awesome
Using reason as the basis for most everything was an enormous leap forward for humanity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2007 12:04 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Silent H, posted 12-19-2007 6:45 PM nator has not replied
 Message 207 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-21-2007 1:56 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 215 of 301 (442660)
12-22-2007 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by macaroniandcheese
12-19-2007 12:07 PM


quote:
i've seen episodes of his show. that's enough to tell me he's a jerk and i have no interest in reading his book.
I have interest in reading the books of all sorts of people I consider jerks; Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, etc.
The difference between Dawkins and those other people is that Dawkins is an abrasive, brilliant scientist, while all of those other people are abrasive, lightweight infotainers.
I daresay you will get more out of your Dawkins book that I will out of any of the others'.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2007 12:07 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-22-2007 12:22 PM nator has not replied

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