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Author Topic:   Why does Richard Dawkins sing Christmas carols?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 76 of 301 (441585)
12-18-2007 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by molbiogirl
12-16-2007 6:51 PM


Re: Crash, in my heart ...
I fail to see how any honest scientist could possibly believe in such unadulterated horseshit ... oops, I mean religion. But some do. How they manage such cognitive dissonance, I don't know.
At best, if he was a true scientist, he should be agnostic. If he believes in atheism, it is by faith. Nothing in science is ever proven. Plus there is no explanation of how and where the universe came from. Saying your atheist closes the door on possible explanations. I for one, do not believe it for a second, and I think everyone is always keeping an eye out for God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by molbiogirl, posted 12-16-2007 6:51 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 12-18-2007 8:41 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 80 by Granny Magda, posted 12-18-2007 10:39 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 81 by bluegenes, posted 12-18-2007 10:57 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 82 by Taz, posted 12-18-2007 11:08 AM riVeRraT has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 301 (441586)
12-18-2007 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
12-18-2007 8:33 AM


Re: Crash, in my heart ...
At best, if he was a true scientist, he should be agnostic.
Yeah, a true scientists has no beliefs whatsoever.
-
Saying your atheist closes the door on possible explanations.
No, saying you're an atheist means you've come to a certain conclusion based on what you know about the world, a conclusion that can change if and when new information comes along.
I mean, Jesus Christ, Rat! You believe in some things, don't you? And at least some of those beliefs would change if you came across better information, wouldn't they?
Or are you saying that each and every one of those beliefs are set in stone forever? Not that I would be surprised at such a thing.

It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2007 8:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by riVeRraT, posted 12-19-2007 10:38 AM Chiroptera has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3950 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 78 of 301 (441608)
12-18-2007 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Kitsune
12-16-2007 1:29 PM


I was just trying to imagine Dawkins singing something like "Silent Night." What goes through his mind?
when i sing silent night, i think of when the fighting stopped in the trenches in germany during the first(?) world war. always have.
Getting together with family and friends to celebrate is important and special, I agree -- but what are we celebrating exactly?
living through another year. considering my family, making it all the way to christmas can be quite an accomplishment. also, having the rest of your family make it to another christmas. being together is something to celebrate in and of itself. why do we celebrate on december 24? because it's near the solstice. and maybe, just maybe, spring will come.
i find it funny that you aren't concerned why christians celebrate in december considering that jesus was born in march.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Kitsune, posted 12-16-2007 1:29 PM Kitsune has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3950 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 79 of 301 (441609)
12-18-2007 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by molbiogirl
12-16-2007 4:00 PM


Re: Little atheist girls
Putting up a tree is a habit.
wrong. putting up a tree makes your house smell like love. *snuggles*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by molbiogirl, posted 12-16-2007 4:00 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Taz, posted 12-18-2007 11:10 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 80 of 301 (441611)
12-18-2007 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
12-18-2007 8:33 AM


Re: Crash, in my heart ...
Hi RiverRat,
I can't help but think that your implied comparison between scientific tentativity and agnosticism is unfair. Scientists always leave an element of doubt in their explanations of natural phenomena, but that doubt is often very slight. Agnosticism implies a much greater degree of doubt and ambivalence than exists around well established theories like evolution or gravity.
Dawkins' position is not "There is, without doubt, no God", but rather "There is almost certainly no God". A perfectly sensible opinion I'd say, and hardly an unreasonable one, even if you happen to disagree.
Would you protest so much if a scientist professed a belief in God?

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2007 8:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 12-19-2007 10:43 AM Granny Magda has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 81 of 301 (441614)
12-18-2007 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
12-18-2007 8:33 AM


riverrat writes:
At best, if he was a true scientist, he should be agnostic.
He's both agnostic and atheist. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any gods, and agnostics do not believe in any gods.
If you actually read Dawkins on the subject, you'll find he's not 100% sure that there are no gods. Same with all atheists I know of.
If he believes in atheism, it is by faith.
A popular misconception. It is by lack of faith.
If a supernatural proposition for which there's no evidence is made, it is belief in it which requires faith, not lack of belief in it. Try this with the proposition "there are little green wood-elves" and you'll see what I mean.
As for atheists singing carols, we can sing any religious music of any religion freely, if we want to, because it has no magical significance to us. I have an atheist aunt who used to go bell-ringing, which is easily understandable to anyone who's grown up hearing the bells peeling out over the English countryside.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2007 8:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by riVeRraT, posted 12-19-2007 10:47 AM bluegenes has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 82 of 301 (441617)
12-18-2007 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
12-18-2007 8:33 AM


Re: Crash, in my heart ...
riverrat writes:
At best, if he was a true scientist, he should be agnostic. If he believes in atheism, it is by faith.
I don't understand something, rat. Do you think everyone should be agnostic in regard to Zeus, Apollo, Hades, Poseidon, etc.?

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2007 8:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by riVeRraT, posted 12-19-2007 10:49 AM Taz has not replied

LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 301 (441619)
12-18-2007 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Kitsune
12-17-2007 6:40 AM


Spirituality
LindaLou writes:
If you wanted to lend me "The God Delusion" then fair enough, I'd read it. I'd be sticking post-it notes for myself on the pages, saying how angry this stuff makes me and how spiritually bankrupt such a position is. I'd probably feel I was wasting my time with such material.
LindaLou, if it is enlightenment you’re looking for you’ve come to the wrong place.
No science forum or science discipline is going to give you that, no, not even evolutianity. You have to look beyond science for that. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Ps. Don't waste your post-it notes...or your time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Kitsune, posted 12-17-2007 6:40 AM Kitsune has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by bluegenes, posted 12-18-2007 11:25 AM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 123 by nator, posted 12-19-2007 9:05 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 84 of 301 (441620)
12-18-2007 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by macaroniandcheese
12-18-2007 10:27 AM


Re: Little atheist girls
bren writes:
wrong. putting up a tree makes your house smell like love.
I don't know about you, but I've been using the same plastic tree for several years now. No smell here.

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-18-2007 10:27 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-18-2007 11:18 AM Taz has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3950 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 85 of 301 (441623)
12-18-2007 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Taz
12-18-2007 11:10 AM


Re: Little atheist girls
i currently use a plastic tree. i make up for it with candles. when i can afford it, i will be killing more trees.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Taz, posted 12-18-2007 11:10 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Taz, posted 12-18-2007 11:47 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 86 of 301 (441625)
12-18-2007 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by LucyTheApe
12-18-2007 11:09 AM


Enlightenment
LucyTheMysticApe writes:
LindaLou, if it is enlightenment you’re looking for you’ve come to the wrong place.
No science forum or science discipline is going to give you that, no, not even evolutianity. You have to look beyond science for that.
Are you sure you're not confusing comforting self-delusion with enlightenment, Lucy?
When you look beyond science, do you prefer crystal balls, mediums or tarot cards?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-18-2007 11:09 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Kitsune, posted 12-18-2007 11:38 AM bluegenes has replied
 Message 89 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-18-2007 11:46 AM bluegenes has not replied

Kitsune
Member (Idle past 4322 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 87 of 301 (441630)
12-18-2007 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by bluegenes
12-18-2007 11:25 AM


Re: Enlightenment
Are you sure you're not confusing comforting self-delusion with enlightenment, Lucy?
When you look beyond science, do you prefer crystal balls, mediums or tarot cards?
No need for more derisory comments thanks, there are enough here already.
Dogmatic skepticism is a position too, and those who choose it as their world view are in as much danger of deluding themselves -- by ridiculing and ignoring the valid experiences of others and potentially of their own -- as anyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by bluegenes, posted 12-18-2007 11:25 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by sidelined, posted 12-18-2007 11:44 AM Kitsune has not replied
 Message 97 by bluegenes, posted 12-18-2007 3:14 PM Kitsune has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5930 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 88 of 301 (441632)
12-18-2007 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Kitsune
12-18-2007 11:38 AM


Re: Enlightenment
LindaLou
Dogmatic skepticism is a position too, and those who choose it as their world view are in as much danger of deluding themselves
Indeed it is and it would do good to recall the words of Richard Feynman
“If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part.”

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Kitsune, posted 12-18-2007 11:38 AM Kitsune has not replied

LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 301 (441633)
12-18-2007 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by bluegenes
12-18-2007 11:25 AM


Re: Enlightenment
bluegenes writes:
When you look beyond science, do you prefer crystal balls, mediums or tarot cards?
I thought them things were for the atheists.
Why does Richard Dawkins sing Christmas Carols?
Because he’s a closet Right Wing Christian. And he’s got you all sucked in. The atheism thing is only to make money and fame.

Mutate and become a burden on society

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by bluegenes, posted 12-18-2007 11:25 AM bluegenes has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 90 of 301 (441634)
12-18-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by macaroniandcheese
12-18-2007 11:18 AM


Re: Little atheist girls
I don't get what's with the big deal with real trees. You know you'll be throwing it away afterward anyway. Why kill a perfectly good tree for a month of traditional pleasure? And if you like a real tree so much, why not plant one in front of your home and then decorate it every christmas?

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-18-2007 11:18 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 12-18-2007 12:03 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 92 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-18-2007 12:08 PM Taz has not replied

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