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Author
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Topic: Haggard Scandal
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
This, like Theater of the Mind, was OT to be talking about moral relativism.
I got that part. But I'm afraid you don't understand moral relativism. If you understood it, you would recognize that christians are moral relativists. Okay, the seventh day adventists are slightly less relative in their morals than other christians, and I hope you see the point I am making with that example. I sometimes listen to fundies condemning moral relativism, and it is really funny to hear the statements of their own moral relativism mixed in with their condemnation of others. I suggest you try to understand your own moral relativism before you criticise that of others.
Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a moral relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative morals on everybody else
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 108 by Rob, posted 11-04-2006 11:56 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 111 by Rob, posted 11-04-2006 12:07 PM | | nwr has replied | | | Message 112 by Silent H, posted 11-04-2006 12:12 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 116 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-04-2006 12:48 PM | | nwr has replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 114 of 302 (361470)
11-04-2006 12:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by Rob
11-04-2006 12:12 PM
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
Morals exist, just not in an absolute sense. So, morals absolutely do not exist in an absolute state?
"Morals exist" is not itself a moral statement. Your argument fails.
Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a moral relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative morals on everybody else
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Rob, posted 11-04-2006 12:12 PM | | Rob has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 115 of 302 (361474)
11-04-2006 12:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 111 by Rob
11-04-2006 12:07 PM
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
Morality is not an imposition, unless 'being' is an imposition.
I guess you could say that being is an imposition. Some people resent that imposition enough to commit suicide. If you were intending your post as a comment on my signature, then you misfired. "Morality" is not the same as "morals".
Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a moral relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative morals on everybody else
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Rob, posted 11-04-2006 12:07 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 118 by Rob, posted 11-04-2006 12:54 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
If I had to guess, you are trying to define what I mean by moral relativism.
Bad guess. What you mean by "moral relativism" does not matter here. You have criticised others based on their statements of moral relativism. That criticism has to be based on what they mean when using that term.
Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a moral relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative morals on everybody else
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 116 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-04-2006 12:48 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
Absolutes exist.
I'm not even sure what that means. I understand "absolute" as an adjective, but what does it refer to when used as a noun. I'll point out that the golden rule asserts a relative standard. Shall I assume that you are condemning Jesus?
Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a moral relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative morals on everybody else
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: nemesis_juggernaut's moral standard refuted by Haggard ... et al
I'll point out that the golden rule asserts a relative standard Okay, point it out for me.
It proposes your own person preferences as to how you want to be treated, as your standard for treating others. If you don't see that as relative, then you do not understand "moral relativism".
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 136 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-04-2006 2:49 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Message 217 of 302 (361851)
11-05-2006 1:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
11-05-2006 1:51 PM
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Re: Haggard's accuser failed a polygraph test
Does this mean anything to anyone here?
It doesn't mean much to me. Polygraph tests are notoriously unreliable. And the report I saw doesn't say much about the particular test. I don't pretend to know what happened. The report that Haggard admitted purchasing meth from Jones, and hiring Jones for a massage, does mean more than the report on the polygraph.
Regime change in Washington - midterm elections, Nov 7
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 215 by Faith, posted 11-05-2006 1:51 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: absolute morality is all relative
If that's true then why do so many relativists object to absolute standards?
There are no absolute standards.
Regime change in Washington - midterm elections, Nov 7
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: Haggard's accuser failed a polygraph test
Perhaps that is an example of following what fundamentalist Christians take to be absolute moral standards 
Regime change in Washington - midterm elections, Nov 7
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 224 by Omnivorous, posted 11-05-2006 2:50 PM | | Omnivorous has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.5
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Re: absolute morality is all relative
There are no absolute standards. And yet you use absolute standards to convey that there are no absolute standards which would make your assessment absolutely wrong.
My statement, that you quoted above, is not a moral statement. Whether or not there are absolute epistemic standards is a separate question from whether or not there are absolute moral standards. As to whether there are absolute epistemic standards, I will leave that for another time and place.
Regime change in Washington - midterm elections, Nov 7
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 246 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-05-2006 4:28 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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