Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Harry Potter: Its all over
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 31 of 52 (412825)
07-26-2007 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
07-25-2007 8:03 PM


nator writes:
It is a great morality tale about choosing to do the right thing, even when it costs you dearly, and how incredibly hard it often is to do that.
While I agree with you about the morality thing, I don't think it reflects real world situation at all. Take a look at the first movie. Every step of the way, Harry is protected and embraced by the figures of authority. They even gave him the Nhimbus 2000...3000...whatever. It's my experience that it's the good/nice guys that never get the attention they deserve in real schools. Just talking about dating, you have to be an asshole to get any date these days (and I'm talking from experience here... after I became a nice guy, my hits went down to almost zero).

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 07-25-2007 8:03 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 07-26-2007 9:10 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 41 by Jaderis, posted 07-27-2007 3:48 AM Taz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 32 of 52 (412833)
07-26-2007 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
07-26-2007 10:51 AM


Re: spoilers!
SPOILERS ALERT
He (Snape) didn't really care about Harry.
I don't know, I think he was a private person, because of his request for Harry to never know about his obsession with Lily. He saw James in Harry, and obviously he therefore disliked him. He was a goody deep down, I think he simply felt compelled to become a deatheater as it was his only chance to oppose everyone he hated, because he was jealous. That was the only group that would accept him. Perhaps he saw himself in Draco Malfoy.
That was one hell of a lot of memories he gave Potter when he was dying. Lol. I think Harry would have needed a barrel to fit all that memory-gas into.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 07-26-2007 10:51 AM nator has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 33 of 52 (412852)
07-26-2007 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
07-25-2007 4:32 PM


Re: Books and Films
i didn't like three as a movie for precisely the reasons you complain about the first two... i think.
it was a great survey of what happened in the book, but it only touched on things oh so quickly and i didn't feel like it explained anything. it didn't seem to stand on its own very well. of course, i may be biased since i didn't see it until after i had read it but saw the other two prior to reading them. i somehow skipped 3 while seeing the movies. i have no idea what happened.
4 was timed very differently from the book, but it stood pretty well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 07-25-2007 4:32 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by nator, posted 07-27-2007 7:51 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 34 of 52 (412854)
07-26-2007 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tusko
07-25-2007 7:56 PM


Re: Books and Films
Brekka
brenna.
it's easy. a common girl's name even. just not mine.
the first two films were mould-filled Hellpants
possible. i saw them in the theatre a million years ago. i have fossils to prove that date.
the time travel element is really fun on screen.
i agree. i guess it wasn't a BAD movie. it's just that it worked so much less than i had hoped.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tusko, posted 07-25-2007 7:56 PM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tusko, posted 07-26-2007 7:20 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 35 of 52 (412855)
07-26-2007 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by nator
07-25-2007 7:57 PM


Re: SPOILER ALERT!!!
Everything that Harry loved or that protected him or gave him any guidence had to be taken away from him in order for him to do what he needed to do, and that included Hogwarts and the teachers there.
Loss and abandonment and how we pesevere and make our own way is a major theme of the series.
i agree. also, note that the story ended in chorus at hogwarts.
btw i thought it was really interesting that each of the seven horcruxes was destroyed by someone different.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by nator, posted 07-25-2007 7:57 PM nator has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 36 of 52 (412858)
07-26-2007 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by mike the wiz
07-26-2007 7:43 AM


Where you sad for Snape? I was. I thought he was a good guy
he's my favorite character, i think. but that may be because he's the voice of god.
i think even his reasons for turning to dumbledore were flawed, but people grow, and he sure did. he was grumpy, but redeemable.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 07-26-2007 7:43 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 37 of 52 (412859)
07-26-2007 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Codegate
07-26-2007 10:19 AM


Re: SPOILER ALERT!!!
i'm sorry? you actually watched the last season of babylon 5?
i guess it lost it for me when marcus died. but then i was just that much too young for politics then and aftermath is so much politics. i was ready for ds9 though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Codegate, posted 07-26-2007 10:19 AM Codegate has not replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 101 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 38 of 52 (412915)
07-26-2007 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by macaroniandcheese
07-26-2007 1:37 PM


Re: Books and Films
I hate getting people's names wrong, sorry. I just have a complete mental block over yours for some reason. Maybe I just can't handle more than two syllables that I don't expect together? I'll try to do my best but try not to be annoyed if I do it again - its not on purpose!
I was perhaps a bit harsh on the first two Potter films - I just remember them being really long and not really earning it for me. Also I got a bit embarrassed for a couple of the semi acting youngsters. But it looked cool - though it has been I while since I saw them too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-26-2007 1:37 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-26-2007 7:32 PM Tusko has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 39 of 52 (412917)
07-26-2007 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tusko
07-26-2007 7:20 PM


Re: Books and Films
I'll try to do my best but try not to be annoyed if I do it again - its not on purpose!
it's alright. i've just had this moniker for more than five years. i actually will answer to it in person. i went on a few dates with a guy who intoduced me to his parents as brenna. it was quite funny but completely unintentional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tusko, posted 07-26-2007 7:20 PM Tusko has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 52 (412928)
07-26-2007 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taz
07-26-2007 12:02 PM


quote:
It's my experience that it's the good/nice guys that never get the attention they deserve in real schools.
The first couple of books are pretty innocent.
Harry has it pretty hard for most of the rest of the books. His life really sucks, pretty much all around, for years.
quote:
Every step of the way, Harry is protected and embraced by the figures of authority.
...except for Snape, who hates his guts and tries to make his life hell.
...and also except his blood relatives, the Dursleys, who also do their best to make his life a terrible one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taz, posted 07-26-2007 12:02 PM Taz has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 41 of 52 (412983)
07-27-2007 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taz
07-26-2007 12:02 PM


While I agree with you about the morality thing, I don't think it reflects real world situation at all. Take a look at the first movie. Every step of the way, Harry is protected and embraced by the figures of authority. They even gave him the Nhimbus 2000...3000...whatever. It's my experience that it's the good/nice guys that never get the attention they deserve in real schools.
Well if you had read the books you would have found that Harry is often shunned/ridiculed by his peers, given detention after detention (not just from Snape, btw), ridiculed by the press and persecuted by the Ministry of Magic. It's not just smooth sailing all the way and you have to read the books to really see it because the movies just gloss over most of it.
You would also have realized why certain Authority figures seemed to favor him. Because they trusted Dumbledore and he knew Harry's destiny was to defeat Voldemort or be defeated by him. Wouldn't you look after someone who had to bear such a burden and whose very existence gave you hope for peace?
I can't really blame you for your assessment, though, because the first book is pretty light fare compared to the rest and is treated pretty well, but that is only to portray the innocence and wonder of childhood and set the stage for the darker times to come.

"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taz, posted 07-26-2007 12:02 PM Taz has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 42 of 52 (412985)
07-27-2007 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
07-26-2007 10:51 AM


SPOILERS AHEAD
I was sad for Snape (and sad we didn't get more of him in this last book). However, I don't really think he was all that good of a guy, although I also guessed that he was a double agent. Ultimately, the only thing he had was an unrequited love/unhealthy obsession for Lily. He didn't really care about Harry.
I disagree. Snape was much more complex than that. IMHO, the memories concerning Lily were meant to show Harry why Snape was worthy of Dumbledore's trust and to show him what prompted Snape to work with the side of the Order.
But, that's not all he was. I think he was nasty to Harry because he had to be in order to maintain his cover and Harry's resemblance to James only made it a little easier. I also think that he was frustrated at Harry's apparent mediocrity (and let's face it...Harry was pretty average at practical magic and Snape never really got to see him do anything at all impressive). He must have been thinking what I am doing all this for if this kid turns out to be nothing special after all? He desperately wanted Harry to learn the things necessary for his task ahead and he kept on pushing him (albeit in a seemingly malicious and back-handed way, but again that was necessary) up until the last time he saw him ("Shut your mouth and close your mind!!) in HBP.
If Snape had only "converted" because Voldemort killed someone he loved, I don't think the trust would have been as powerful. I think that Snape realized what Voldemort truly was and that he didn't want to live in a world where Voldemort or his folowers held any sway (the memory where Lily condemns him for his increasingly alarming views hints at this). Only those who are incapable of love would want to live in that kind of world. Even the Malfoys ended up with misgivings when their beloved son was put in harm's way (well, Narcissa at least - we don't see much of Lucius after the debacle at the MoM).
Dumbledore knew that and knew that Snape would do whatever was necessary to ensure that Volemort was defeated. Not out of revenge, but because he was able to love.
It must have been such an incredible burden on Snape having to do the things he did. Especially killing Dumbledore (remember the "hate and revulsion" on his face when he did it?).
Like I said...he was way more complex than that.

"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 07-26-2007 10:51 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 07-27-2007 7:55 AM Jaderis has not replied
 Message 45 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-27-2007 9:28 AM Jaderis has not replied
 Message 46 by mark24, posted 07-27-2007 10:42 AM Jaderis has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 43 of 52 (413003)
07-27-2007 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by macaroniandcheese
07-26-2007 1:34 PM


Re: Books and Films
The first two movies were just a bunch of scenes from the books, played on the screen. Too simple and list-like.
The third, though, actually had a central theme (time), was cinematically interesting and very well-edited, and the kids' acting was better, I think, because they got better direction. It also had a sense of humor and felt more like the director had a creative, cohesive vision.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-26-2007 1:34 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 44 of 52 (413004)
07-27-2007 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Jaderis
07-27-2007 4:17 AM


Re: SPOILERS AHEAD
You make very good points, and I shall ponder them.
PS Excellent post about "femininity" to Juggs over on the Feminism thread, BTW.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Jaderis, posted 07-27-2007 4:17 AM Jaderis has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 45 of 52 (413011)
07-27-2007 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Jaderis
07-27-2007 4:17 AM


Re: SPOILERS AHEAD
i quite agree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Jaderis, posted 07-27-2007 4:17 AM Jaderis has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024