Hi all, first post.

. . . and Happy Holidays to all.Please don't let me spoil you party but I would argue that Christmass is for Catholics only and especially not for Christians who have thrown the baby out with the bath water when they threw out the daily masses.I am not sure where this post will end up but here it goes.

Welcome and Merry Christmas to you too.

This post should have been placed in the street where the baby went.This message has been edited by Lam, 12-23-2004 02:14 AM

quote:

---

Please don't let me spoil you party but I would argue that Christmass is for Catholics only and especially not for Christians who have thrown the baby out with the bath water when they threw out the daily masses.

---

Catholics don't have daily masses so I'm not sure what you mean.

Hi, Seafarer. You wanna debate? You got one! Protestants were needed to challenge the authority of an early church with no moral backbone. Catholics believe that salvation is obtained through the historic church, while Protestants believe that salvation is obtained through the Word of the Bible and, more specifically, a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ.Both are right. Catholics are correct in showing the need of a unified church. Many of the early Popes and church authorities did not appear to have had a true and strong relationship with the living God as did the early Protestant reformers. I personally know of a few people whom I respect as being "in tune" and spiritually communing with God who are of both persuasions. There are arguments from both sides about who is right and who is wrong. Peter Kreeft is a great apologist from the Roman Catholic side, while Norman Geisler is an advocate of the Protestant viewpoint. Google either of them if you want some meat.Christmas adherants may have thrown the baby out, however, when they turned a quaint holiday into a 2 month infomercial.As far as daily masses, we can and should spend some quiet time each day praying to God. Why need it be ritualistically organized? Merry Christmas to all at EVC! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-23-2004 05:07 AM

Why? Christmas existed many years before Christianity, we just called it by a different name. And nearly all of the traditions of Christmas are, in fact, Pagan in origin.

It was by way of introduction that I threw out that post. The message really is that I am a Catholic who will always respect others (Happy Holydays again for whatever reason) but hold, argue, and defend the idea that heaven is for Catholics only (and Jews).The fact is that there was no baby to be thrown out, but when they threw out the bathwater they recognized an actaul baby that never existed. Hence they now celebrate a birthday that never was. Hint, just go to John (the Catholic Gospel) where there is no infancy narrative while it does have a post resurrection account.Please note that if I proclaim a heaven that is for Catholics only it doesn't look good for atheists either.

We do, or are suppose to, have daily masses and they parallel the daily rounds of Samsara that culminate in the final round of Samsara.Our daily masses are much like the [daily] forms that culminate in the Final Form or the daily ousia's that culminate in the Parousia.We have never thrown anything out because whatever we generate are eternal truths that can only bear fruit for the rest of the world to enjoy.

When you speak of Catholic are you talking about the Roman Catholics, Papists, Episcopalins?Do you even know the meaning of the word catholic?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

---

We have never thrown anything out because whatever we generate are eternal truths that can only bear fruit for the rest of the world to enjoy.

---

I thought that the Catholic Church changed a lot after Vatican II. Didn't they throw out Latin and indulgences and I thought that the Pope said that evolution was true? I think that it is clear that the Catholic church has thrown things out so some things they have generate are not "eternal truths".

quote:

---

The message really is that I am a Catholic who will always respect others (Happy Holydays again for whatever reason) but hold, argue, and defend the idea that heaven is for Catholics only (and Jews).

---

As far you thinking that god is not letting non-Catholics/Jews into heaven I'm fairly certain your opinion counts for nothing in gods mind. To pretend that you "respect others" and then tell them they are damned to hell in the same breath seems a bit hard to swallow. That doesn't sound like respect.BTW welcome to EVC.

Hi, And Jews?The very people who rejected God's Son will be welcome in heaven?Deary me Seafarer you got a lot of studying to do.Brian.

My first post as well! I"ve been lurking a while, and I finally feel compelled to pop in...

quote:

---

We have never thrown anything out because whatever we generate are eternal truths that can only bear fruit for the rest of the world to enjoy.

---

Do you reject Vatican II? If so, why?

quote:

---

The message really is that I am a Catholic who will always respect others (Happy Holydays again for whatever reason) but hold, argue, and defend the idea that heaven is for Catholics only (and Jews).

---

I'm taking RCIA classes currently, and the Catholic Church you speak of definitely isn't the modern one.

Under Rome, yes. Not the generic small c stuff protestant conjure up with their eyes closed. Is that what you mean?

You claim that heaven is for Catholics and Jews only. What is your reasoning behind this? Protestants believe that Jesus was the son of God, and by believing in his sacrifice eternal life is given. Also, Jews reject Jesus's divinity, so why do they go to Heaven? Please explain why you believe what you believe.Oh ya, call me ignorant, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about when you mention 'throwing out the bath water and baby'. Could you clarify please?

. . . but when I write that heaven is for Catholics only it is wrong to assume that everything else goes to hell. Besides, it is just an argument that I am wiling to present and defend and that does not condemn you or anyone unless you stand convicted by it without defense. After that you still do not have to believe anything I write.Yes it has changed since Vatican II. I am more of a traditional Catholic and not much of a theologian at that. That they threw out Latin and indulgences just means that they no longer use them as tools. Evolution always was true outside Eden but not inside Eden where creation takes place. So when they agreed with 'you' (impersonal) they kind of understood your predicament.