Howard Dean was right!

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The thing that gets me is that so many republicans are full of advice about how the democrats can reclaim the White House and Congress. The advice always seems to include the admonition to "keep your mouths shut". As I mentioned earlier, the democrats are NOT losing elections because they won't keep their mouths shut.

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Exactly.The fact that Dean is getting under the skin of many Republicans is, in my mind, a very good sign.

Ok then we agree, Howard's rhetoric is a good plan, he should keep talking.

If I'm part of a TEAM, then you are part of the opposition TEAM.

Monk writes me:

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Ok then we agree, Howard's rhetoric is a good plan, he should keep talking.

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Finally! Took you long enough.

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

What are you talking about? I've been consistant throughout this thread. Howard should keep talking, it's good for Republicans.

Monk writes me:

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...it's good for Republicans.

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If you say so.

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

By which logic I can take it that the Republicans are supporting Bolton because he's good for Al Queda. At least now we know what side Reps are on.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Yeah, that's really one of the more intellectually insulting parts of this whole debate.Whatever they say Dems should do is pointless, they'd never vote for a Dem because they are purely partisan and have no principles. You could run a Jefferson/Washington Dem ticket with Lincoln as the head of the DNC and Reps would be hooting and howling about how stupid and unamerican they are, while voting for some neocon. Agreed, of course not in the way Monk is meaning it.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

That comparison makes about as much sense as a football bat.Republicans like Dean because he speaks what democrats think. Most democrats won't voice what they think because if they do, they know they will lose elections (much as they have been). Democrats simply haven't been honest about who they are. Dean is. And we appreciate him for that.He may appeal to the really far lefties with his statements, but the average person is finally getting to see what Dems are all about. They can't compete in the arena of ideas, and Dean amplifies that.How does that compare to the Republicans and Bolton?

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"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Whatever they say Reps should do is pointless, they'd never vote for a Rep because they are purely partisan and have no principles. You could run a JFK/Hillary Rep ticket with Teddy Kennedy as the head of the RNC and Dems would be hooting and howling about how stupid and unamerican they are, while voting for some socialist liberal.This message has been edited by Monk, Tue, 06-14-2005 12:36 PM

Are you implying that JFK/Hillary/Ted Kennedy are on the same level as Jefferson/Washington/Lincoln? Or are you seriously implying that Democrats think that JFK/Hillary/Ted Kennedy are on the same level as Jefferson/Washington/Lincoln?

No

I thought I made this clear, but perhaps it was too complex. Lets try it again.Monk was stating that Reps like him are for Dean because his statements will not appeal to Reps (for whatever reason) and so lose support for the Dems.I was making a connection between Dean and Bolton because their hyperbolic commentary is the same. I would guess that it could be said that Bolton says what Reps think but are afraid to say, because if they do there'd be international outrage and lose world support (much as they have been doing).Republicans simply haven't been honest about who they are. Bolton is.The difference is that while Reps will say this is true for Dean... his hyperbole will affect the standing or gaining support for a cause... they argue the opposite in the case of Bolton saying his hyperbolic commentary can do no such thing.There is also a difference in that the Dems do not believe the US should be portrayed as believing what Bolton and neocons believe. Thus they are extra shocked that he;d be considered because they don't want to see the US weakened any further, and thus aid our enemies.I might also add that even nonDems (like myself) can see that same issue in Bolton. I have already agreed with Monk's general position that Dean's commentary can't help the Dems win support from Reps. The problem is you and he can't stay consistent and approach the Bolton issue with the same reasoning.Hyperbolic commentary is either useful or its not. Make up your mind.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

For some that may be true, but the 04 election showed that it is certainly true for most Reps.There is no way Bush should have been victorious if the members of the Republican party voted along traditional Republican principles... and that means stated by Reps as their "traditional principles" as late as the 2000 election.From an outsiders perspective it was quite illuminating, even if depressing. I loathed the Dem candidate in 2000 and was more or less supportive (certainly more than Gore) of Bush do to much of his stated platform. The same man ran in 2004 but with a diametrically opposed platform and (what's worse) job performance.There were a few Reps who admitted this and left the party. Most however, like McCain, cried like a bitch, then shut up to rally around the Republican Party (planning a fight over what principles would reign AFTER the election).I mean what was it, a month, maybe two after the election that McCain returned to criticizing policy and stating that most Reps had left the party's principles behind? If only that guy had a real pair of balls DURING the election.Reps have criticized Dems for playing partisan politics for a very long time, but recent history has showed it up to be mass projection. Sure many Dems are partisan, but not as bad as the Reps.That's from an OUTSIDER'S perspective who dislikes both sides. I'm still hoping for a turnaround within the Rep party, and a return to principles.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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If I'm part of a TEAM, then you are part of the opposition TEAM.

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No, there's a big difference between you and me.I am an equal opportunity criticizer.I have publically criticized Clinton, I criticized Kerry, I criticized stupid Democrats and Democratic and liberal programs and have for years. I see through spin, I read and listen to conservative sources of info, I try to get a broad spectrum of news sources.You, on the other hand, seem to support Republicans no matter what they do, even when they completely reject traditional conservative values.That's why I asked you to list 10 Republican policies or elected officials you are critical of.