Quitting smoking?

I find it odd that they neither name the study nor provide a link to it. At any rate, you've yet to show that there more nicotine in the exhaled vapor of an electronic cigarette than there is in a tomato, yet you are up in arms about e-cigs. You are reacting as if e-cigs are actively killing you, yet no one has a clue as to what is actually in the vapor. Why wait for study results? You've already determined it to be harmful.Explain how your argument differs from that of the "vaccines cause autism" argument?Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

You ask why wait to see if its harmful, why not ask the question why not see if its harmful before allowing it as it is a toxin? It seems reasonable to me.I have not said anywhere that it is harmful, just that nicotine is a poison and so it may be better to err on the side of caution until we know more about the risk.Well, vaccines aren't poisonous and aren't being released into the air for others to breathe. There is a definite public heath benefit to vaccines (i.e. lots of people don't die). And all the dozens of studies done have shown no increased risk of autism due to vaccines. So it differs a hell of a lot.

I could ask that, yes. I have actually asked that, indeed. Howevre, that is not the topic of this line of discussion and is not the tact you are following.the difference is: I acknowledge that it is essentially just water vapor and dissipates almost immediately. No one is blowing it in my face (I'd blow my fist in their face if they did), so why would I get up in arms about it? As long as I don't smell it, I don't really care. No, you've not said that you think it is harmful. You have acted as though you are convinced it is, though. None of which stops the anti vaxxers from spouting BS without sufficient data to back them up. They, too, have news articles that claim scientific studies to back them up.

For sure. I'm comparing it to the amount of nicotine in exhaled vapor.

If there were health hazards associated with being gay would we encourage people to not be gay? Or would we come up with a healthier way to be gay? If there are dangers associated with driving a car do we encourage people to not drive cars? Or do we come up with safer cars? Or be promiscuous or jump out of a plane? Why is smoking so different from any other behaviour be it chosen or inherent? (I would bet you a dollar that there is a genetic component to the reason that I smoke)How is the way that our societies treat smokers not discrimination?

Exactly the point I was laughed at for making earlier.Why wait for decades of studies on the long-term effects of second-hand 'vapors'? How many people died from exposure to traditional second hand smoke while folks sat around waiting for 'study results' before choosing to do anything?How many people are still dying because various locales refuse to recognize the health hazard? All the more reason to tell folk to blow their mystery vapor somewhere else. Or, instead, you could explain how it is any bit similar.

Maybe I am a bit confused. Is your concern that people are blowing vapor in your face? Or that they are doing it indoors within your view? If the former, I can see a problem, but not with the vapor itself: that's fucking rude and you should take it up with that person, not as a crusade against their hobby. If the latter, then,....well....tough shit? I am pretty sure I have halitosis so my breath is probably more foul than the vapor exhaled by e-cigs and no one says shit to me (except for my wife when I gross her out by breathing in her face after a long night of whiskey, weed and garlic bread).Secondly: have you any evidence that anything that is exhaled from e-cigs or vaporizors lingers for any amount of time? If it isn't blown in your face, what is the problem? Is there any science that indicates that water vapor lingers around, causing damage or being harmful well after it dissipates?Look, I am disgusted by smokers more than is reasonable and I think people that smoke e-cigs and the like look silly and should stop advocating them as healthy alternatives (less dangerous alternatives would be better since we don't know if they are healthy or not), but to crusade against them and treat them the same as cigarettes is asinine. To claim them to be flat out dangerous to others is ridiculous."it's new and I am ignorant of it, so it must be dangerous" Still dying from what? Where? What do you mean with this? "I have no data to back up my fear, but it persists nonetheless and I will advocate against it". The basic arguments are exactly the same for both topics. Granted, it's a pretty weak comparison and I won't bother making it anymore.

But they did in the 80's inform gay people of the risks of having unprotected anal sex during the rise of AIDS. Not that they shouldn't be gay but that there are way safer ways to have sex. He's right. Same as a doctor telling a gay person that having unprotected anal sex with multiple partners during the AIDS epidemic was likely to kill them. He did consult you on a way to reduce your risk of early death. Isn't that what you go to the doctor for? The most disgusting of all people, yes. Couldn't agree more. And I'm sure to many people so is banging a dude right in his poop shoot. But there are safe ways to do it that reduce your risk of death. But would he trade 30 years? My uncle died at 50 from smoking.- Oni

That's a cute sound bite. Did he mean 5 years for every cigar? That would make him dead sometime before birth.

Because for now, we cannot fix the problem.Because smoking is that it inherently requires an addictive substance that drags you early grave. You apparently aren't the least bit interested in e-cigs, so you've turned down the improvements. "Low tar" cigarettes just make you huff harder on them and then buy more.Your doctor is not a magician. He can't fix cigarettes, so he's giving you the advice he can give you. His job is to worry about your health, and you insist on working against him and then bad mouthing him for trying to talk sense into you. Do you expect him to give your bronchioles some kind of anti-tar coating?

Here is an anecdotal data point for you. My mom has already outlived her used to be 20 cigs a day husband by 25 years.

There is no argument to make.Show that it's safe.Until then, keep it out of my air.

It's not in your air.

No I was being serious. My points were that I actually do enjoy smoking and that smokers are excessively demonised.I have no problem with being told that I can not smoke beside you while you are eating your salad but being told that I can not smoke in the park or on the patio or in my office has nothing to do with any danger to the health of others. The looming restrictions on vaping are a good sign that there is something else at play.Imagine if we reacted the same way for all of the other hazards that result from our choices. Big signs that remind us how many people were killed by cars every time we go for a drive or pictures of clogged arteries on every bag of potato chips. We could have pictures of a cow being slaughtered on the menu beside the cheeseburgers and reminders of how intelligent a pig is beside the breakfast special. How about giant billboards of dead children in front of the munitions factory, oiled birds by every gas station and videos of working conditions in the garment factory when you go to buy your clothes.I am aware that there is an element of cognitive dissonance and that I am bitching about having it continuously pointed out to me. I appreciate that I am on the wrong side of the argument and I certainly appreciate how difficult it is to stop. I applaud your decision and ability to quit and I empathize with subbie. I just think that the dissonance doesn't belong only to the smokers.

I think that vaping might be a good alternative. I went looking for some yesterday but couldn't find any that had nicotine. Apparently the good people of Ontario have decided to restrict them. I have to look some more. I didn't mean to bad mouth him here and he didn't take it that way at the time. He acknowledged my argument and then pointed out that it didn't make a damn bit of difference. He said something like ' Smoking as much as you do is stupid and no amount of philosophy is going to stop a heart attack.' I disagreed about that as well but left feeling thoroughly chastised. He did say that he wouldn't mind if I smoked 4 or 5 cigarettes a day which I thought was a much better approach than telling me that I was about to die a horrible death.