People, please read this... (re: Same sex mariage)

Sorry, Rockhound. He brought it up, and I thought if I tried that one comment on this thread, it wouldn't have to bring up the issues of the other thread, and he might consider what I said.I wouldn't have continued it here. I had to try once. Sorry.

I agree, mostly. Finding a religion is about taking the not knowing away. People want to find peace with who they are and where they’re going. They don’t want to think critically about what they are being taught. This is for a good reason. Where is your sense of belonging if you disagree with the predominate ideologies? You didn’t just join this wacky cult to be an outsider!

TL, I second what others have said; you expressed what I was trying to say more eloquently and effectively!Thank you.

quote:

---

If something tells kids 'Thou shalt not steal... thou shalt not kill... etc' who cares where it originally came from?

---

Well, I think the motivation for WHY children should choose to do good and give of themselves to others rahther than be harmful or neglectful of others is important.If one teaches that "God is watching", and will be angry or disappointed if they don't behave properly, then I think this is a particularly childlike view of why one would want to behabve a certain way, or not.On the other hand, if one teaches that the reason to behave justly and morally is so we can all live a more just and moral life, together, because we probably only have one shot at making our community and world a better place, then I think this is a way to instill a strong moral code without guilt or fear.It is pro-active and positive rather than reactive and shame or guilt-ridden.

Hi all,I agree Shraf, if children are taught moral concepts on a religious basis do they truly understand the social contract or are they only following the concepts out of fear of retribution? I think this also leads to many of the posts on this forum where believers think that to be atheist means to be amoral. If you are taught that moral behavior is because "God" doesn't like it, when you come across someone who doesn't believe, what are you suppose to think? This can also, in some instances, lead to the "it's us or them" mentality that has plagued religion since the very beginning of the concept.------------------
Asgara"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

/sighsorry, duplicate post[This message has been edited by Asgara, 07-03-2003]

It's possible that children find the idea of "God is watching" easier to understand. That's why it's called a childlike view.

quote:

---

It's possible that children find the idea of "God is watching" easier to understand. That's why it's called a childlike view.

---

Well, yes, you are right. Children easily believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus, too.

I was thinking about this today, and I decided that it's just as easy, if one is a parent, to "be God" to the children at a very young age, which is when they are forming their funamental notions of acceptable and unacceptable behavior. The parent effectively is considered an all-powerful God by the child.Babies and children are strongly programed to work very hard to please their care givers in order to receive food and protection, so I really don't see why the disappointment or approval of a parent wouldn't have an even stronger effect upon a child than some remote invisible "something".

Giving someone the freedom of choice to believe or not. Not indoctrinating at an early age. This is all very well but what if the tendency to believe is an inheritable trait, as I have suggested in future evolution of humanity? I think it may be. But, most likely notion you don’t have to understand everything, god explains it, is predominately indoctrinated. Moral development is known to be age related. The morality of constraint (Piaget’s theory) they just are, god did it, is what you get from children under ten. They will probably question both notions when they get older. Later moral standards are based on convention. They just do because their friends, the law says, and so on. Some people never get beyond this, eg. fear of god. Most people develop later in life a postconventional morality (Kohlbergs theory), which is more abstracted.

Hi, I believe the posters problem with Marriage is that Marriage is originally a religiously instituted function. In his/her case he/she would oppose not civil weddings, but religious weddings. This degrades everything the church believes in.Personally if 2 gay men want to call themselves married, feel free, I couldn't care less, however to do so with the notion that a Christian God approves of it is mockery of the Christian Faith.You might as well be disgusted at how Christians show hatred towards child molesters or people committing beastiality.

Possibly it is more likely that at a young age , children really dont particularly care or understand why they should care about a community or whether their actions hurt mommy or daddy's feelings.Most children tend to be selfish. When you have a child one day and you want to explain to it about the needs of community and why they should do good, well , just hope the community is something they actually care about (something I dont think many troubled teenagers will feel a close affection to).cheers

Zealot,Thanks ever so much for displaying the tolerance we all recognize as the hallmark of religious fundamentalism.Far be it from me to interrupt you while you're busy dropping your pronouncements from on high, but I just wanted to know if you've already lost interest in discussing the falsifiability criteria for scientific theories. Several people have taken the time and effort to contribute to the discussion you yourself started with this thread, but if you've decided to spread your message of love elsewhere, let us know that we were mistaken in our assumption that you wanted to engage in fruitful dialogue.------------------
En la tierra de ciegos, el tuerto es el Rey.[This message has been edited by MrHambre, 08-14-2003]

Zealot writes:

quote:

---

You might as well be disgusted at how Christians show hatred towards child molesters or people committing beastiality.

---

Why is it some people can't talk about gay people without comparing them to child molestors or animal abusers?I'm surprised someone hasn't brought up the "Next thing you know, they'll try to make it so you can get married to your car!" argument...because that make so much sense, you know...allow two people who are in love, are both adults, and aren't close kin get married and the most obvious "next step" is marriage to a car!It truly says a lot about the person when he can't discuss a loving relationship.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

If there are three things in this world that terrify me, they are:1) Environmental Disaster2) International Terrorism3) Gay people getting married.It's no surprise that certain people begin to doubt their faith. What kind of God would allow such things to exist in our world? I suppose I could accept the prospect of breathing polluted air, drinking radioactive water, and eating toxin-laden food. I could even get used to sudden attacks by brutal psychopaths on crowds of innocent people. But the fact that two men would be allowed to marry in certain countries or states, well, that just means God is not listening to our prayers.