Gorilla strength

hello Psaghafi The guiness record you are talking about was in an 1981 Guiness book of world records, which I used to have. It does make sense that the Gorilla would deadlift only twice as much as the world's strongest human, considering the fact that weightlifters (and probably Powerlifters) rely very much on their leg strength in lifts like that. Gorilla's have shorter legs than humans in relative terms, and depending on what source you read, only 30-50 % of their body strength in the lower body. And in some movements a powerlifter or weightlifter would be far stronger. In the september 2000 issue of National Geoprahic, pg. 16 there is a photo of a Shane Hamman, a weightlifter who, at 360 lbs, can jump atonishingly high with his legs. On the other page another weightlifter states that spring and slamdunk a basketball from a dead standstill. No Gorilla would be able to jump that high. They probably cant even jump period! But unlike the weightlifters, those Gorillas are more than capable of beating them in most upper body movements (some movements more or less so), as you stated.Yes, I saw that episode on the discovery channel that you are talking about "animal Face off". I remember that when they tested the mechanical arms that where to mimic a Gorilla's on the Bamboo, it didn't really bend in half, but at both the sides where the arms where bending (it's been a while since i've seen the show though. Correct me if im wrong). I didn't know that Gorillas bit the bamboo in order to bend them easier, but considering the less than admiral way the bamboo broke in the mechanical test, it seems reasonable that the gorilla would bite it before bending, so that it would break at the middle. It probably can bend bamboo without biting it, but it would only do so the way the mechanical arms did: breaking at the different ends of the bamboo, not in the middle.BTW: I think that Pandas also bend Bamboo or break it using their arms. The'll brak a part of Bamboo off in order to eat it, or something like that. Though the main bamboo crushing utensil of a Panda is it's jaws.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Indeed. I was skeptical about the idea that a 1500 lbs Brown bear could only hit with a force of 1000 psi with a paw swipe or a 600 lbs Black bear could hit with only 200 as stated in that series. On "the most extreme" on Animal Planet channel, it stated that Gorillas could lift 4600 lbs above their heads. But it also put cattle above Gorillas and Grizzlies in the list! Plus, there are several websites that claim that Leopards are weight for weight 7 times stronger than a man. They may be as strong as that, but based on their physiology, i dont think we will see them benching 200-750 lbs anytime soon lol.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Yes, I agree with you on these points. Gorillas are very strong, but not as strong as the Discovery show attempted to portray.

True, but the fight and it's outcome was correct (the Gorilla smashed the leopard). I dont doubt that in many ways Gorillas have the strength of 20 men in the upper body, but they dont have that strength in every area of upper body movement. Chimps are about 5-7 times stronger than humans (but only three times in arm pulls or deadlift)so a Gorilla should be at least well over ten times stronger than a human male. But in terms of relative strength, I belive that Orangutans are stronger than all three.BTW: this is one website about the fact that Leopards are 7 times stronger than a human weight for weight: Not Found Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

I actually once saw something very strange that surprised me. For years I have wished I had a digital camera at the time. My mouth dropped open when I saw this.I was at the Como zoo in MN. There was a 475 lb. muscular Western Lowland silverback gorilla known as "Casey" chasing another gorilla behind the glass enclosure. I believe the gorilla he was chasing was named "Schroeder". "Schroeder" weighs over 500 lbs.Anyhow, inside the enclosure there is a big crevice between two sets of rocked paths. I actually saw "Casey" leap across the enclosure by extending his arms so he looked like Superman flying through the air and then landing on the other side. He did this while chasing the other gorilla. Think of how you would expect a mountain lion to leap across a crevice to reach the other side. It looked similar. He had a running start and then leapt off his back legs landing on all four on the other side. I was absolutely amazed that this huge creature leapt more than 20 feet. I promise that this is legitimate. I saw it with my own eyes.So while the Discovery channel is guilty of overestimating the ability of gorillas, sometimes we are also guilty of underestimating them. Gorillas are better jumpers than people realize. That's why they have escaped their enclosures at times. In fact, Casey escaped the enclosure at the Como zoo more than once. You can read about him online. Casey was moved to another zoo, but he was a very social and often friendly gorilla.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.

Good Gravy Marie!!! I have to rethink my views on Gorilla leaping abilities.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Orangutans actually have less muscle mass per pound of fat than gorillas. I read this in an article.Orangutans DID outperform gorillas when it came to breaking coconuts with their teeth. However, the reasons why are unclear. Gorillas are far less assertive when it comes to these types of things. These tests were done at a zoo. Gorillas just don't try very hard unless they want to. Motivation may have been the primary factor.At the same time, there are many reasons to suspect that orangutans have very strong arms, but weaker shoulders than gorillas. The proportionate muscle mass of a silverback is greater in the shoulders than an orangutan. Orangutans are not as well adapted to actual combat either so they have less mass in the neck. Neck muscles in silverback gorillas allow them to tolerate blows to the head.I've gotta' run. I won't have time to post anymore.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.

It is obvious that gorillas are alot tougher and stronger than "average humans".
Im just saying a well trained human, in both strength and skills could beat a gorilla in one on one fight, just as Oyama has beaten angry bulls alot stronger than him. Gorillas are far stronger, but just as World Strongest Men cannot beat smaller Mixed Martial Arts experts, just as Akebono gets owned in K1, a smarter human could outwit a gorilla. As for gorilla's skull, I read that although it is thicker than human skulls, it is not greatly different. They belong to same animal family Hominidae as humans, chimps, and orangs which consistutes a similar structures.These are quotes from an article I read:"A gorilla has a skull which closely resembles the skull of a man. However, encased in that skull is a small brain, smaller than that of a dog. A gorilla has no reasoning process worthy of the name. Suppose he was fighting Joe Louis. What would he make of that amazing fast left jab? It would bewilder him considerably. It has bewildered every human opponent (except Max Schmeling) Louis has ever fought. A gorilla doesn't know pain, they say. Suppose Louis or Schmeling or any of the first ten ranking heavyweights were to land a punch let's say on Gargantua's Adam's Apple. Then Gargantua would know pain. Were you ever hit on the Adam's Apple? It isn't fun. Jack Dempsey hit me there when we boxed in Philadelphia and I felt as though I were swallowing whole pineapples for a week after. Martin Johnson told me a well-placed punch on the jaw would down the average large gorilla.""'A gorilla is a sluggish thinker,' Martin Johnson said. 'He only knows one attack. He goes after something and grabs it with his hands and then hugs it to his breast, crushing the life out of it when possible.'""And speaking of unprotected solar plexuses, I can remember seeing in the American Vaudeville Theatre at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue some years ago a washed-up middleweight fighter named Mike Farrell from the Westside Athletic Club put the gloves on with a trained polar bear at the invitation of the trainer from the stage. The bear had been used to sticking out one of its gloved fore-paws and scaring the silly men who would accept the invitation to box with the bear as a lark. Mike Farrell had an Irish sense of humor. When the bear stuck out his paw, Mike simply slipped inside and with both hands played the most resounding rat-a-tat on the unsuspecting bear's midsection. The bear dropped on all fours and ran off the stage, letting out the most terrifying shrieks. The trainer tried to brain Mike with a chair, the only weapon he could reach, for trying to kill his breadwinner.Gargantua is a big boy but a Dempsey left hook landing on his stomach might figuratively tear the poor animal in two and leave him paralyzed on the canvas or jungle. He didn't spend years of doing bending and mat exercises. A man has twenty-four ribs. Your encyclopedia will tell you that a gorilla has but thirteen. Between the ribs, below the breastbone, there are nerve centers. If they are shocked the shock travels to the spine temporarily causing paralysis. The ribs and well developed muscles between the ribs protect these nerve centers. Twenty-four ribs are much more protection than thirteen."If you interested in the whole article:
http://www.genetunney.org/gorilla.html

I'm an avid martial artist and a fan of boxing and mma. I haven't read your other postings and can't draw many strong conclusions about what you wrote in your last response.You seem to believe that a guy like Fedor Emelianenko could beat up a healthy 500 lb. silverback gorilla.You also argue that a gorilla's head isn't all that different from that of a human being-- except for cranial capacity.These are interesting arguments. I do know that trapezius muscles, jaw size, length of the neck and skull size, tucking of the chin, and bone thickness all heavily correlate with your ability to take head shots to the face and jaw without being knocked out.Mark Hunt is an example of a mma fighter with great genetics when it comes to withstanding knockout punches.A gorilla has a vastly better profile. Its structure IS designed to withstand hard shots to the head. There is no doubt about that.It would be interesting to see a gorilla and a mma fighter wrestle, but I don't think that is ever going to happen. I wouldn't want them to fight though. Gorillas just want to eat.I don't know what would happen, but as much as I admire Fedor, I'd put my money on the gorilla.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.

To read about "Casey II the gorilla" jumping out of the Como zoo enclosure go here: Page not found - Como Zoo ConservatoryScroll down to "1994".The Como zoo actually had to expand the enclosure just to avoid his escapes from the zoo. Everyone was amazed at his ability to jump.I never saw him escape from the outdoor exhibit. I just saw him jump across a 20 foot or so crevice when he was running around in the indoor exhibit. Casey is one agile and big gorilla!My feeling is that healthy silverback gorillas are able to generate leaping strength by curling up their backs into a ball while moving. When I saw Casey jump he sort of galloped and then curled up mid gallop and suddenly erected his body using the lower back muscles to generate a lot of power. It's almost like the lower back and middle back were used as much as the legs.Also, Casey's arms are so long and powerful that he was able to reach across the crevice and generate even more thrust with the upper body. He then caught the other side with his forehands and landed on all fours (just like a lion would).Weird.

Gorilla skull; Human skull;

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Jake, are a lot of the strong men that you see in contests and talk about (such as those who can bench over half a ton)in the 300-450 lbs range? If so, that's the same weight range of a male silverback Gorilla. But there are two problems in thinking that they can beat a Gorilla in a fist fight.Consider Neanderthals. THe average Neanderthal was around 2-3 times stronger than a human being, probably more. Even the evolutionists and Creationists/ID'ers agree on this. Paul Jordan, an Evolutionist wrote an excellent book on Neanderthals called... "Neanderthal: Neanderthal man and the story of human origins". ON pages 46-64 it discusses Neandethal morphology, and from reading it you can get the impression that they where far more robustly built than most, if not all humans today. Marvin Lubenow, a Creationist with expertise in fossil homonids, stated that the Neanderthals on average attained a strength comparable to the most avid bodybuilders. He quotes several mainstream scientists on page 78 saying that Neanderthal bones attest to physical strength rarealy attained by humans today, and that they where so strong that the wear patterns on Neanderthal tools cannot be duplicated by people today, indicating a impressive muscularture.But notice the comparison of Neanderthal and modern human skeletons on the following site:http://www.signonsandiego.com/...50223/news_1c23neander.htmlAlthough the Neanderthals where on average 2-3 times stronger than a modern human, they are quite smaller. Based on this, if a 175 lbs Neanderthal would be be strong enough to rival the strongest men on Earth, how would those modern strongmen compare to a 360-400 lbs Gorilla?also, in message 199, I posted info stating that a Leopard, pound for pound is 7 times stronger than the average man. Although a Leopard can't bench press or snatch a weight over their heads like a 500 lbs weightlifter or powerlifter, they nervertheless have physical strength comparable to seven human beings, which means they are more than capable of generating enough force to overpower any of them and eat them. And yet, on the "animal face off" show me and psaghafi have watched, the Gorilla expert stated that although female and baby Gorillas usually sleep in trees at night for protection animals like Leopards, the male sleeps on the ground and has no fear of being attacked by a Leopard. Reason why is that the Leopard is nowhere near as strong as a silverback. If the Leopard has enough physical strength and power to take down animals and weightlifters much, much larger than it'self, then Gorillas should be far stronger than both.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

BTW: here are some sources about Neanderthal strength you may find interesting.http://www.madsci.org/...chives/2002-01/1010680667.Ev.r.htmlDiscover Financial ServicesBECOMING SAPIENS - The New York TimesThe last source states that the Neanderthals had enough overall body strength to lift a ton. Other than backlifting, I've never heared of anyone in the modern era (save For Angus McAskill) that could lift that amount, especially in deadlifting, bench, clean and jerk or snatch. Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Now I do believe that Oyama or someone like him could possibly take on a Gorilla, or someone as strong as angus (if that).But the size comparison between humans, stronger Neanderthals, and even stronger and longer limb Gorillas says a lot about human "physical strength".

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Let's get one thing totally straight. The argument that a gorilla has a head structure "not all that different from humans" can be very misleading. What this statement really means is that gorillas have eyes, a nose, a mouth, and ears placed in approximately the same location as ours. So in this context, the gorilla is more similar to humans than other animals. It DOES NOT mean that gorillas have a jaw, skull, neck and bone structure that will only absorb about the same amount of abuse as ours. They can absorb A LOT more. Again, this isn't an opinion; it's a fact. If you don't buy this argument then you're being stubborn.Without a doubt, the main reason gorillas are so thick boned is because their lifestyle requires them to utilize much more strength than us. The silverbacks are also designed to FIGHT if they have to and to NOT GET HURT when they fight.Now for a little conjecture: I think it will be incredibly difficult for a human mma fighter to submit a gorilla. Their long arms and thick bones would make arm bars, kimuras and other techniques difficult. Their enormous and short necks would make rear-naked chokes very hard. Their skulls, jaw and head structure would make knockouts by bare handed humans near impossible. Let's also not forget that the gorilla WILL BITE. It won't follow mma rules. A bite from a gorilla is not like a bite from a human.The more I think about it the more convinced I am that a silverback gorilla would not only survive, but do very well against the best mma fighters on the planet.The article on Neanderthal lifting a ton is interesting. I'm not sure how they could estimate that Neanderthal could lift that much. Sounds like a very rough estimate to me.One thing is for sure-- the average Neanderthal was a lot stronger than the average man. It still surprises me that there is so much analysis about the scientific morphology of Neanderthal man and his estimated strength level while there is relatively little scientific analysis of the modern gorilla and strength. Most of the information online about gorilla strength is based on conjecture.Edited by psaghafi, : No reason given.