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Author
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Topic: Try to keep hatred out of our Constitution.
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: 09-26-2002
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Message 166 of 298 (316287)
05-30-2006 1:44 PM
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Misplaced moderator message
Previous content deleted. I thought I was in the "Anti gay rally gone too far?" topic, and was moderating as such. Adminnemooseus Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 167 of 298 (316289)
05-30-2006 1:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 163 by riVeRraT
05-30-2006 12:56 PM
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Re: Hatred?
You mean by how you judge my acts I will be known. No, not at all. That statement doesn't even make sense. It is only your acts that people can judge, nothing else. My actions have absolute nothing to do with how others judge you.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 05-30-2006 12:56 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 168 of 298 (316306)
05-30-2006 2:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 167 by jar
05-30-2006 1:52 PM
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Re: Hatred?
My actions have absolute nothing to do with how others judge you. Your actions include this statement:
It is time for everyone, particularly Christians, to write their Senators and Representatives and show that the Christian Right cults do not speak for all Christians and that hatred and bigotry have no place in the US You have just defined all people who are against same sex marraige as being full of hate, and are bigots. You have voiced you judgement to everyone, which can be misleading since it just isn't true. Your actions have brought hatred against Christians.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 167 by jar, posted 05-30-2006 1:52 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 169 by jar, posted 05-30-2006 2:42 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 169 of 298 (316311)
05-30-2006 2:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 168 by riVeRraT
05-30-2006 2:32 PM
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Re: Hatred?
You have just defined all people who are against same sex marraige as being full of hate, and are bigots. You have voiced you judgement to everyone, which can be misleading since it just isn't true. Yes, I have expressed MY opinion. But where do YOUR actions place you? If you bothered to read what I wrote I said:
It is time for everyone, particularly Christians, to write their Senators and Representatives and show that the Christian Right cults do not speak for all Christians and that hatred and bigotry have no place in the US ...that the Christain Right do not speak for all Christains, and that hatred and bigotry have no place in the US. Yes, opposing same sex marriage is bigotry. Sorry, that's a fact jack. Whether it is motivated by hate, ignorance, intolerance or any other factor, the inclusion of discriminatory laws is a hateful act.
Your actions have brought hatred against Christians. Where and how? I am a Christian. There are many Christian groups that agree with me.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 168 by riVeRraT, posted 05-30-2006 2:32 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: 02-12-2003
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Re: On choosing to use the term hatred.
Our village is lot like most villages probably used to be, except that we all live together on purpose. In some ways it's like a commune. It's not an incorporated township.
you have no interest in changing or berating the world around you to fit your standards Well, we have a lot of interest in changing the world around us. I won't lie about that. We hope to be persuasive. Like I said, though, asking for legislation to make others live as we do has proved historically to be a terrible idea. In fact, if what we believe is true--which is that it is the power of Jesus Christ that produces love, unity, and a life that is pleasing to God--then it is senseless to try to accomplish that with legislation. I believe in legislating morality, but it should be the morality of the people or you just have oppression. The people of the US don't have the same morality I do. We'd like to see that change by our example, our teaching, and by the power of God, but not by legislation.
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truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: 02-12-2003
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Message 171 of 298 (316319)
05-30-2006 3:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 160 by NosyNed
05-30-2006 11:23 AM
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Re: How many?
I think there's around 220 of us. Without trying to count, my guess would be that about 60 of the children were born here. If birth was the only way we were growing, then I'd guess there'd be another 30 or 40 in 10 years.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 160 by NosyNed, posted 05-30-2006 11:23 AM | | NosyNed has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 176 by NosyNed, posted 05-30-2006 3:48 PM | | truthlover has not replied |
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truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: 02-12-2003
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Message 172 of 298 (316321)
05-30-2006 3:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 161 by nwr
05-30-2006 11:24 AM
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Homosexuality environmental?
You seem to be assuming that if homosexuality is enviromentally produced, then your community would be exempt. It was a thought. I don't think it was an assumption. I'm quite willing to admit we may be facing the whole issue at some point, but I'm not assuming it will or must happen, as I'm thinking Schraf is. Answering her next.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 161 by nwr, posted 05-30-2006 11:24 AM | | nwr has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 175 by kjsimons, posted 05-30-2006 3:39 PM | | truthlover has replied |
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truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: 02-12-2003
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Message 173 of 298 (316327)
05-30-2006 3:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 159 by nator
05-30-2006 10:53 AM
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Re: On choosing to use the term hatred.
There is evidence that homosexuality may be produced environmentally; in the womb. Hormones, you know. Nobody knows for certain yet. Maybe people some are born with hormones that will predestine them to be homosexual. Maybe not.
Why on earth would you think it impossible that a child born at your village would be gay? I'm just saying it's still an if, thus the *if* that I used. I didn't say it was impossible, and I don't think it's impossible. It's entirely possible we'll have to face such an issue some day.
However, if you are saying that being around gay people or in a culture which accepts homosexuality will make people who otherwise would never be attracted to the same gender suddenly turn gay, I think you are gravely mistaken. I'm saying no such thing. I'm not pinning down any factors that might influence people to be how they are. I will say, though, that I believe growing up in America is *often* a very messed up way to grow up. Social needs are often not met; public school is often extremely traumatic, and children that are not the norm are subject to ongoing rejection and at least mild abuse. America has invented thousands of ways to live solitary, and all of that affects people.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 159 by nator, posted 05-30-2006 10:53 AM | | nator has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Re: On choosing to use the term hatred.
We'd like to see that change by our example, our teaching, and by the power of God, but not by legislation. that's what i was referring to. i hope to change the people around me, too, into more loving, compassionate, merciful, forgiving people. do i do this by petitioning for laws requiring charity donations or any such nonsense? no. i do it by trying to be loving, compassionate, merciful, and forgiving and demonstrating that this makes me happy and subject to less stress. and sometimes it works.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by truthlover, posted 05-30-2006 3:14 PM | | truthlover has not replied |
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kjsimons
Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: 06-17-2003 Member Rating: 5.7
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Re: Homosexuality environmental?
, but I'm not assuming it will or must happen Can you name one society that doesn't have some % of it's population that is homosexual, what makes your village special? Granted in societies where they tend to kill or imprison homosexuals, there will be fewer people admitting to it. This is also true in societies that shun them. There are varying numbers on what percentage of the population is gay, but with sixty children in your village if 4% were gay, that would mean at least 2-3 of them probably consider themselves gay. Of course if they are told from birth that being gay is a sin, they will be much less likey to be open about the issue, as they would be shunned for admitting it.
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NosyNed
Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: 04-04-2003
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The statistics
Without knowing how the stats are broken down but just taking them globally I can't be too sure but the odds are you have some individuals in your village that you will have to deal with. Hopefully with the tolerance and kindness that you have exhibited here.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 171 by truthlover, posted 05-30-2006 3:18 PM | | truthlover has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 188 by nator, posted 05-30-2006 9:13 PM | | NosyNed has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 177 of 298 (316346)
05-30-2006 4:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 169 by jar
05-30-2006 2:42 PM
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Re: Hatred?
Your actions have brought hatred against Christians.
Where and how? I am a Christian. There are many Christian groups that agree with me. Riverrat is right. You bring hatred against true Christians by calling their opposition to gay marriage "hate" and "bigotry." Demagoguery designed to bring hatred against them, and acceptance toward your party. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 169 by jar, posted 05-30-2006 2:42 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 179 by jar, posted 05-30-2006 4:59 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 178 of 298 (316347)
05-30-2006 4:50 PM
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Causes of homosexuality
While there may be "proximal causes" of course, from the environment or even the genes, those are partly consequence as well as cause, as there is a fundamental spiritual cause according to the Bible. That is, homosexuality in a culture is a consequence of God's abandonment of a society for its rejection of God and worship of idols in his place:
Rom 1:18-28 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; This has implications for the power to overcome homosexuality too, although people should be careful not to make overly optimistic promises about this, because it depends on too many things, including the strength of an individual's faith, which is a gift from God and nothing we can command. Homosexuality's being an inherited spiritual condition, however, suggests that faith can completely overcome it in some cases, as true devotion to Christ gives strength against all sinful spiritual conditions. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : to add bolds. previous edits changed some wording for clarity
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 179 of 298 (316348)
05-30-2006 4:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
05-30-2006 4:38 PM
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Re: Hatred?
Faith writes: Riverrat is right. You bring hatred against true Christians by calling their opposition to gay marriage "hate" and "bigotry." Demagoguery designed to bring hatred against them, and acceptance toward your party. I can bring no hatred to Christianity, I am a Christian. It is not Christianity that is the problem, it is people who happen to be Christians and that support denying human rights to other Americans. Their actions are hateful, and they are bigots. That has nothing to do with Christianity, but rather to their perversion of the message of GOD and Jesus. It is the ACTIONS of those who support discriminatory legislation such as the "Defence of Marriage Act" that lets folk know they are bigots, not what I say. I don't bring hatred, they exhibit it. I do not make them bigots, their actions make them bigots. Speaking out against such behavior is not an option, it is the Christian thing to do.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 177 by Faith, posted 05-30-2006 4:38 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 180 by Faith, posted 05-30-2006 5:10 PM | | jar has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 180 of 298 (316349)
05-30-2006 5:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 179 by jar
05-30-2006 4:59 PM
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Re: Hatred?
Labeling people haters and bigots is to call down hatred against them. That is nothing but slander to whip up people against those who differ from you politically. Such smears interfere with reasonable dialoque as they poison the well by presenting your opponents as beyond reason. The motivations for opposing gay marriage have absolutely nothing to do with hatred of gays for starters, that's just your propaganda campaign. I agree that Christians should identify false beliefs, and yours qualify as false. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 179 by jar, posted 05-30-2006 4:59 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 181 by jar, posted 05-30-2006 5:25 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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