HELP NEEDED - Evolution Vs. Creation debate for school!

Hello, I am Marel and I ma new here. I could use some help since i am the leader of the creationist group in a Creation Vs. Evolution debate at my Christian school. My group has been struggling to fully grasp some concepts and come up with enough proof to win the debate. See, being in a Christian school, my group is expected to win although no harm done if we don't. We each were assigned a question to use to start us off. Each member has a partner on the opposite team whom they will debate with. One team makes a 1-3 minutes speech then the other teammember gets a 1 minutes rebuttle and then back to the first person's team for a 5 minute discussion time. I will list the questions below and try to explain some of the things we already have as I get suggestions. I will also put the name of the Creationist member who will be answering the question.1. (David) Describe the worldview your group holds including three main points. (We were told personally to describe 'worldview'as well)
2. (Autumn) What is your view of the scientific method? Give two reasons why your methods prove your theory.
3. (Todd) What is the main goal of the scientists from the other view? Give 2 reasons why you disagree with that view.
4. (Marel & Brielle) Describe microevolution and macroevolution from your viewpoint and how these prove your views. (I have taken on macro while Brielle has micro)
5. (Austin) Use at least two main points for these topics:
Evolutionist worldview: Describe punctuated equilibrium and natural selection
Creationist worldview: Describe abrupt appearance and natural selectionI, as leader, also have to give a 1 minute closing statement at the end to sum everything up. Any ideas on what i should say?This message has been edited by Marel, May-02-2005 08:21 PM

urm...i dunno how this works so i say b.u.m.p.

I seriously need some quick help. This debate is tomorrow and it's already 8:55 PM. Please hlpe me outThis message has been edited by Marel, May-02-2005 08:55 PM

Hi Marel,good luck!Mick

Should have thought about this before last minute, huh? Looks like procrastination isn't an atheist disease after all. You expect us to summarize in a single post something that has taken the smartest people in the world 100 years to develop? I could tell you the real main goal, but I suspect you will get an F in the class, considering who your teachers are. There is no difference between micro and macroevolution. It's like asking "what's the difference between walking from your house to your next door neighbor and walking from your house to the next neighborhood?" you can google both of those.All in all, you don't really want our help. Considering the school you're going to, might as well make up some strawman and get an A rather than do some real research and get an F. If you want an A, just say "Evolution is the work of the devil. Scientists are actually witches and warlocks who answer to the atheist high command daily. Planetariums, museums (especially the science and industries), and universities should be burned to the ground. Scientists, professors, and science college students should be hanged or burned alive. All books, except for the bible, should be banned forever! No freedom for anyone!!!"

Oh oh, I'd say you left this a bit late. This isn't a topic that one covers in an evening.However, rather than wait for others to reply I think you should speed read through material on this site.There is a search function available and Google's advanced search limiting it to a specific site is helpful.There isn't much that is specific enough in your post to focus on in a very short time but micro- macro evolution is pretty focused. Google that and you will find a lot.A quick summary is:
Biolgists have used the terms to distinguish between those changes occuring in a population without resulting in speciation and those which finally do produce a new species.I suspect that some decades ago the anti-evolutionary folks decided that there can be no speciation and therefore no macroevolution. That is a new species was a new "kind" and therefore against the Bible.Well, since then the fact that new species arise is so very well established the anti-evolutionary definition of macro evolution has been moved first to Genus (but then that has been shown to arise). Then it was moved to family and sometimes order.There is some confusion on what the term means. You might attempt to define it. No anti_E person here has done so very clearly.

See my response in the other thread.Bend over, place head between knees, kiss it good bye.Creationism is indefensible.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Um...excuse me but none of that helped. I need some ideas and my school isn't like that at all. It is nondenominational and they are VERY open minded. I can tell you now that we don't wear uniforms and my teacher loves to joke with us and i've even heard her say shut up and faggot if that means anything at all to you but anyways, i need something breif that might cover what Autumn needs for her question. They are wanting us to come up with our own answers from the internet and videos and such and NOT give them what we think they want to hear. We would flunk for that.

My point exactly.Jim Jones was nondenominational and he seemed fine... until everybody that followed him died.Christian schools = indoctrination/mind control centers.Besides, hasn't anyone ever told you to not wait till last minute to do something this big?

Yup. Tell Troy you teacher calls people faggot. That will certainly get you support.MarelYou waited far too long. It took GOD six days to make the world and you want it done before class.Let me suggest that you begin by reading Bishop Sims Pastoral Letter on the subject. Perhaps it can provide you with a theologically based way to present your case. It can be found here.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This is so frusterating...i can't let my group down now. We do have a bunch of info and, no matter if we support it or not, we have to defend it in the debate. Same goes for the kids on the evolutionist team. And, ok, i understand these are big topics and i never said i don't have anything on it yet. We have a lot of stuff so far but some is in the heads of my team. But since our opponents are also between the ages of 13-15 it won't be as deep as the debates here. We don't need such thourough answers and rebuttals. See, what i've come up with for macro is that macro is the change from one species to a new species, unlike micro which is a change staying within a species. I'm getting tired and can't get my brain to work right now but i know i touched on selective breeding and natural selection and survival of the fittest sort of things. I dunno...i don't tihnk i did a good job on my part except maybe in leading my team to get their own info.

I'm afraid that Troy was being, on one level, a bit facetious.However, given the short time he as actually given you some useful little bits to understand.His example of the non-difference between macro and micro evolution is a useful thing to think about. The biological use of the terms actually does have a line, a barrier between them. That is when a speciation event occurs there is an interuption of gene flow between populations. This allows futher separate developments to take place.When someone suggests that there is some barrier beyond this there is a need to suggest what it might be. No one has suggested even loosly what that might be. When the genetics are examined, as we now are becoming able to do in great detail, we can find no barrier and find close connections across taxonomic catagories higher than family.At a simple level Troy does make clear the anti_E problem if they want to disparage "macroevolution" so it is useful in that regard if just a tiny bit too simple.His last rant about the minority religious view of science sounds a bit useless too but if you want a summary of the real underpinings of the Anti-E thoughts in a very simple way he has done that.

Marel,
If you haven't already, hop over to http://www.trueorigin.org/, which has various creationist arguments already laid out - Might be quicker than trying to absorb the entire EvC site in one night!Good luck...This message has been edited by Dead Parrot, 05-03-2005 03:34 PM

oh and i never said she CALLED anyone a faggot. She wasn't using it as an insult to anyone but trying to make a point at the time. We have some...thickheaded students in the 6th and 7th grade. And i didn't realize there were so many evolutionists here. I was really hoping for more creationist views from someone who may have some help for Autumn with her question and me with mine. I'm looking through notes i took to try and see what it is my teacher told me to look into specifically. He did say "How does micro lead into macro?" and...i've somewhat found that... problem is, lately i've been going totally brain dead when it comes time to yank info out. I did it on my math paper which i never do,im extremely good at math, and i did it on a bible test. Went totally blank. I also shocked my science teacher when i went blank when he was helping us out by acting out as the evolutionists in a mock debate. I never do this so i'm really freaked out about tomorrow...i'm trying to get as much down on paper now as i can

This is because there are 3 kinds of creationists in this world.1) Liars: these creationists usually avoid a site like this because it is so darn easy to refute their lies.2) Crackpots: these creationists make absolutely no sense, even to their fellow creationists, and they are usually very stubborn and break all the rules on this site, which then get them banned.3) Coherent creationists: these creationists understand that the evidence for creation is weak if viewed by well trained academics, like myself . This is why they try to avoid direct confrontation/debate/conversation with the scientists that inhabit this forum. I very much suspect that the only thing keeping them creationists is their faith in their religion.