Religion is Evil!

Absolutely, Brad. I have no problem agreeing to disagree on the gene idea. Have a great week

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goodness in humanity has nothing to do with any religion."
I don't believe that this is a right statement. What I do agree is that humanity now is affected by religions, try to imagine if there's no religion. No rules from God which people use now.

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The rules of religion (morality) are not from God, they are from people.If God decided it was moral to rape and pillage at will, would it then be considered OK by His followers to rape and pilliage?If you say that God wouldn't consider raping and pilliaging moral, then God is bound by moral rules rather than being the source of morality.So, morality, being a human invention, can and does exist without belief in any dieties, let alone your particular god. Morality is a social convention that developed to make living in groups more pleasant.

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But again some people use or made rules in the name of religion to cover their sins or they prefer their names to be praised.. like some Hebrews in the Bible, who hated Jesus.

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...or like many Christians who hate Jews, or Muslims.

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If there's no religion.. how people know that killing is bad?

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They are taught by their parents and the society at large, just like they are today. There is no need to teach any of this in a religious context, although it can help.Of course, some religions, such as Christianity, have taught that killing is OK as long as God tell us to do it.

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You read the Bible you surely know.. Moses even killed an Egyptian because the Egyptian was smiting on an Hebrew. (Exodus 2:11)
People didn't know that killing others is a sin for God.

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...except when your God tells you that it's a good thing to kill, such as when the Israelites slaughtered the Caananites in the OT.

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So He gave 10 commandments so people know something about what are considerable as sins for God.

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The commandment about killing is usually mistranslated. It is more accurately translated, "Thou shall not murder. So, it's not killing, per se, which is forbidden, but murder.[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-23-2004]

Crash, By acting on the assumption that He doesn't exist when in fact He might, acting in such a way that He, if He does in fact exist, is deeply pained. The arrogance of assuming that you are right on a debatable issue is no excuse for behavior that unjustly causes pain to Someone. Atheism is thus a hate-crime against God, as long as reasonable, well-intentioned respected persons (such as Tolkein, or CS Lewis, or Bonhoffer) argue that it is likely that He is really alive and present. They could be wrong or right, of course. But only someone who hates God would assume that they are wrong, and then engage in inconsiderate actions that would cause pain to God if they, and not you, are right.Stephen

Could you quote the precept or are you talking about an EVENT in the OT?Please show where God says it is good to kill, quote it and also I'd like to here a quote from Christ as he would surely teach us to kill if it is a good thing. His/our so called religion is Christianity, we adhere to Christ's teachings so I really do need you to quote something from Jesus that indicates God tells us to kill(teaching). Or are you wrong and he does not tell US to kill because you are infact referring to an EVENT - Thanks Schraff.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-23-2004]

"If God decided it was moral to rape and pillage at will, would it then be considered OK by His followers to rape and pilliage?"
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Yes... some or alot of people do agree with that and do that things in the name of their God(s).So, morality, being a human invention, can and does exist without belief in any dieties, let alone your particular god. Morality is a social convention that developed to make living in groups more pleasant.
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But, why some people which have different religion and or different place have different morality?
Place could give big influence on the morality of a person, and the place's morality usually influenced by that place's religion.
Why place's morality or morality of the people on that place usually influenced by that place's religion?
I could be wrong on this. Could you give me your point of view, so I could understand also?"Of course, some religions, such as Christianity, have taught that killing is OK as long as God tell us to do it."
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Maybe you have wrong idea about Christianity. Christianity came from Christ, Jesus Christ's teachings. Where did you read in the Bible, saying that Jesus said, "it's good to kill"?, like Mike said.
He even told us to love our enemies.
I think you have confused it with other religion.
I thought you were agree that you have to look Bible as a whole, not pieces? (You wrote that in other thread).
If I may know.. what religion do you follow?[This message has been edited by Chris, 02-23-2004]

If Religion is defined as being mans attempt to find or define God, I assert that religion is evil. If Religion is God imparting Truth into man and seeking relationship with us, I assert that Religion is NOT evil.

I'll paraphrase the Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook:Basically, clerics of a god have to be within one alignment step of their deity's alignment. So, followers of a Lawful Evil god have to be of Chaotic Evil, Netural Evil, Lawful Evil, or Lawful Neutral alignment. Neutral deities can have evil or good followers, but usually not both. (The deity picks which, I think.)So, in short, is religion evil? Only if your deity is.

A fantasy roleplaying game thought by some fundamentalists to usher in "other" spirits to a persons mind. And since Your "deity" is your own mind, you are not evil! Is that how you see it, crashfrog? Fine. I respect the religion that you have chosen. After all, if all truth is relative, who am I or my God to tell you any different? If My God is Not relative as a truth, but is absolute, you then have an issue with Him. Whew! This topic is getting old!

Oh, FFS. Roleplaying is a game - not an occult practice, not a summoning of demons and not a satanic ritual, regardless of what that clueless nut Chick writes about them. The absolute lies and bullshit the christian right spouts about roleplaying surpasses even that which they spout about evolution.

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"You're Green, You're Ugly and the Gods Hate You."

Ludicrous. Spirits aren't even in the Player's Handbook. You have to delve into the Monster Manual before you find incorporeal undead.Why don't you try and play it sometime? If you wanted you could probably make up a deity in the game akin to the Christian God: Yaw-weh, the Lamb God, a Lawful Good deity of the Law, Good, and Sun domains.It's good, clean fun. You're more likely to learn more about the occult from reading Harry Potter than playing D&D. Uh, no. Congratulations on a response that once again appears to have almost nothing to do with what I actually said. Boy, you'll just take any opportunity at all to spout off your misconceptions about atheism and moral relativism, won't you?

Now you've done it Crash, you've mentioned Harry Potter! Everyone knows that these books are just guidebooks to indoctrinate impressionable young minds into the side of evil.

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Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

Huh, I wish! Instead of the Young Witches' Primer I had hoped for, all I learned about the occult from Harry Potter was how to clean troll boogers off of a magic wand. Phooey.Honestly, if you're looking into the occult, I hardly think a dice game put out by Hasbro is going to be the place to start.Oh, and how come Focus on the Family et al. pisses themselves over Harry Potter but The Lord of the Rings is wholesome family entertainment, even though Gandalf is a wizard? Is it because Harry Potter is a fun read for a kid and the Lord of the Rings is boring? (There, I said it. I loved the movies but the books are agonizing.)

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By acting on the assumption that He doesn't exist when in fact He might, acting in such a way that He, if He does in fact exist, is deeply pained. The arrogance of assuming that you are right on a debatable issue is no excuse for behavior that unjustly causes pain to Someone. Atheism is thus a hate-crime against God, as long as reasonable, well-intentioned respected persons (such as Tolkein, or CS Lewis, or Bonhoffer) argue that it is likely that He is really alive and present.

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Well, what if I find SIX authors of fiction and philosophers who argue that it is unlikely that God is really alive and present.That would beat your three, right?Or, it could be that your Argumant from Authority is fallacious and meaningless.

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They could be wrong or right, of course. But only someone who hates God would assume that they are wrong, and then engage in inconsiderate actions that would cause pain to God if they, and not you, are right.

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So, do you believe in all of the gods of all of the world's religions, just in case you might be causing pain to one or many of them in case you are not right?

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Please show where God says it is good to kill, quote it and also I'd like to here a quote from Christ as he would surely teach us to kill if it is a good thing. His/our so called religion is Christianity, we adhere to Christ's teachings so I really do need you to quote something from Jesus that indicates God tells us to kill(teaching). Or are you wrong and he does not tell US to kill because you are infact referring to an EVENT - Thanks Schraff.

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Why do I have to quote something from Jesus when the OT is part of the bible that you read and supposedly follow?At any rate, take a peek at Leviticus for a lot of laws about who to kill and why, according to God.Also, you cannot deny that there have been many Christians in the past (Crusades, Inquisition, Salem Witch Hunt) and a more than a few in the present (Ireland, abortion clinic terrorism, KKK terrorism) who have killed because their interpretation of their religion told them it was good to do.If not good, then justified and neccessary.

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But, why some people which have different religion and or different place have different morality?

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Well, at a very basic level, all cultures have similar moral codes.The differences are decided upon within the culture.

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Place could give big influence on the morality of a person, and the place's morality usually influenced by that place's religion.
Why place's morality or morality of the people on that place usually influenced by that place's religion?
I could be wrong on this. Could you give me your point of view, so I could understand also?

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I agree that the culture in which one is raised influences one's personal moral code and pretty much determines what religion they will follow.

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Maybe you have wrong idea about Christianity. Christianity came from Christ, Jesus Christ's teachings. Where did you read in the Bible, saying that Jesus said, "it's good to kill"?, like Mike said.
He even told us to love our enemies.
I think you have confused it with other religion.

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Well, what do you call it when Christians seek to destroy other groups because they believe God is endorsing their actions? That has happened periodically throughout the history of Christianity and continues on smaller scales today?

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I thought you were agree that you have to look Bible as a whole, not pieces? (You wrote that in other thread).

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Absolutely, except then one is left with a lot of mixed messages.

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If I may know.. what religion do you follow?

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None. I am Agnostic.