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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Hominid Missing Link (Ethiopia, 4.1-4.2 million years ago) | |||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
SciAm Article "A Link in Lucy's Past" (click)
Paleoanthropologist Tim White of the University of California, Berkeley, and his colleagues have unearthed fossils representing the oldest species of Australopithecus, Au. anamensis, in northeastern Ethiopia's Middle Awash valley. The 4.1-million- to 4.2-million-year-old remains--including jaw fragments, teeth and a femur--extend the range of this hominid, which was previously known only from two sites in Kenya. And in terms of age and anatomy, they are intermediate between two other hominids found in the Middle Awash: the older Ardipithecus ramidus and the younger Au. afarensis (Lucy's species). With the new anamensis fossils, White and his collaborators now have 246 hominid specimens spanning the last six million years--"the longest, most continuous record of human evolution anywhere on earth," according to their press release. Exactly which species of Ardipithecus gave rise to anamensis is still uncertain, however. Although Ar. ramidus is a strong candidate at 4.4 million years old, there could another, more closely related species, awaiting discovery. The Nature paper detailing the discovery can be accessed from here. Reuters News Article "Ancient fossils fill gap in early human evolution" (click)
The remains of the hominid that had a small brain, big teeth and walked on two legs, fits into the one million-year gap between the earlier Ardipithecus and Australopithecus afarensis which includes the famous fossil skeleton known as Lucy, which lived between 3.6 and 3.3 million years ago and was found in 1974. White said the large teeth suggest the hominid was able to eat fibrous foods and roots, compared to earlier species of Ardipithecus that had smaller teeth which restricted their diet. Along with the hominid fossils, the scientists discovered hundreds of remains of pigs, birds, rodents and monkeys as well as hyenas and big cats which gave them an idea of the habitat in which they existed. "Here, in a single Ethiopian valley, we have nearly a mile-thick stack of superimposed sediments and twelve horizons yielding hominid fossils. These discoveries confirm the Middle Awash study area as the world's best window on human evolution," White added. Nature Article "Australopithecus before Lucy" (click)
Humanity is widely believed to have descended from the genus Australopithecus, but the beginnings of that genus are shrouded in mystery. Newly discovered fossils from a previously unsampled time slice in the Middle Awash study area of Ethiopia add important information on the subject. They represent the earliest known member of the genus, Australopithecus anamensis, the first to be found outside the Turkana basin in Kenya. The finds are from a woodland context and show how Australopithecus may have evolved from the more primitive Ardipithecus, and may have been ancestral to Australopithecus afarensis, popularly known as 'Lucy'. You have to sign in to readmore on Nature's website. Take particular note of "a mile-thick stack of superimposed sediments and twelve horizons yielding hominid fossils." Enjoy.
{"(Ethiopia, 4.1-4.2 million years ago)" part added to topic title. - Adminnemooseus} This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-14-2006 03:24 PM
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
See An Ethiopian skull may be another link.
This one closed. Adminnemooseus This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-13-2006 11:54 AM New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
RAZD has pointed out that my decision to close this topic was in error.
Topic reopened. As noted at the end of message 1, I have also modified the topic title. Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Thank you.
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kalimero Member (Idle past 2474 days) Posts: 251 From: Israel Joined: |
Very interesting!
With the new anamensis fossils, White and his collaborators now have 246 hominid specimens spanning the last six million years--"the longest, most continuous record of human evolution anywhere on earth," according to their press release.
{Bold mine}I never knew there were so many!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
yes.
Several were found in groups, and while this means fewer time data points, it also means that arguments about deformed and diseased etc are not valid. Some specimens will also be represented by just a few bones, so it is the more complete sets that are most remarkable. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
We've created TWO MORE GAPS in the fossil record!
YAY!!!!
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I am not studied enough on anthropology to debate the topic, but for what it's worth here's a good link covering ICR's arguments concerning the discoveries of White and others. I've chosen a segment here which I considered to be significant.
link writes: How Rare Are Human Fossils? Human fossils are not as rare as the evolutionary establishment suggests. According to Marvin Lubenow, the number of human fossils is much greater than is universally assumed. Referring to the three-volume Catalogue of Fossil Hominids, he gives the following conservative tally (he could have used maximum values given in the catalogue): ” 1390 fossil individuals are from Africa (through 1976) ” 1516 are from Europe (to 1970) ” 1092 are from the Americas, Asia, and Australasia (to 1974) That is 3,998 individuals. Donald Johanson discovered Lucy in 1974. [Lubenow, pp. 28-29] These figures include about 200 Neandertal individuals and 100 Homo erectus individuals. Lubenow just informed readers of the Creation Research Society Quarterly that recent discoveries increased these totals to well over 300 Neandertal, 220 Homo erectus, and 80 archaic Homo sapiens. [Lubenow, CRSQ 1994] Since that time, anthropologists have found many more fossils, and the actual number is much larger now. Tim White's team at Aramis in Ethiopia discovered seventeen new hominid fossils-Australopithecus ramidus-supposedly a million years older than Lucy. [White] The detailed report in Nature magazine describes the seventeen new specimens (all but two are teeth), and gives the year they were collected. Bernard Wood remarking on these fossils says that the teeth of A. ramidus are more chimpanzee-like than those of A. afarensis. [Wood] Is it possible that all Australopithecines have chimp-like teeth and could fit well within the variable limits of the chimp? They may not be chimps, but they are apes and not hominids. The duck and the duckbilled platypus have some similar features, including egg laying, but no one suggests one evolved from the other. We have many things in common with all mammals, but they are not considered hominids. Why should one or two human-like features among apes be cause for considering extinct apes our ancestors? No one has ever observed or demonstrated evolution outside the limits of variation within the gene pool of each species. Why do otherwise intelligent men take these blind leaps of faith into the unverifiable, unrepeatable past, proclaim their assumptions to be facts, and foist them on us? In his book, Duane Gish remarked that the range variation in the teeth of living chimpanzee populations is greater than the differences between the teeth of two fossil species of apes, Dryopithecus and Ramapithecus. [Gish, p. 141] Evolutionists used to think Ramapithecus was our ancestor but then decided it was an orangutan. [Gish, p. 141] Page not found – Creation In The Crossfire BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Unfortunately, the source you linked to only refers to sources from 12 years ago. It doesn't go into the intermediary between Ardipithecus ramidus and Australopithecus afarensis which is being referenced in this thread: Au. anamensis.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Buz,
Lets look at those comments:
Human fossils are not as rare as the evolutionary establishment suggests. ... Referring to the three-volume Catalogue of Fossil Hominids, ... The catalogue in question is (a) not listed in his references (bad form eh? or so that it is harder to check? or using one reference to provide data from another source and not use the privary source?) and (b) most likely "the British Museum’s three volume, Catalogue of Fossil Hominids of the late 60’s" refered to in another ICR article (which appears to be removed from the ICR site, but a google cache of it is here), and Volume two was published in 1971 and volume 3 in 1977. Given that he is refering to a catalogue of fossils that was published by ? "the evolutionary establishment" ? and only chose some of those fossils for his list, how is he demonstrating that fossils are more numerous than "the evolutionary establishment suggests" eh?
The detailed report in Nature magazine describes the seventeen new specimens (all but two are teeth), and gives the year they were collected. Bernard Wood remarking on these fossils says that the teeth of A. ramidus are more chimpanzee-like than those of A. afarensis. [Wood] Is it possible that all Australopithecines have chimp-like teeth and could fit well within the variable limits of the chimp? They may not be chimps, but they are apes and not hominids. This last comment is just an assertion, and no evidence is provided to substantiate it. Further, we would expect teeth of transitional species to also show transitional aspects, so saying they are more "chimp-like" or more "ape-like" (properly more "common ancestor like") is what we would expect to see.
The duck and the duckbilled platypus have some similar features, including egg laying, but no one suggests one evolved from the other. This is a strawman argument, and it has nothing to do with the teeth in question and how the scientists know how to catalogue them.
Why should one or two human-like features among apes be cause for considering extinct apes our ancestors? Argument from incredulity.
No one has ever observed or demonstrated evolution outside the limits of variation within the gene pool of each species. Another logical fallacy - this is like saying that the earth doesn't rotate because no one has ever seen the sun on the other side of the earth from them. Also, seeing as every instance of evolution that has been observed has been dismissed by creationists as within "the limits of variation within the gene pool of each species" no matter how much evolution is involved makes this conclusion pretty vapid. Those are all pretty empty comments - rather deperate imh(ysa)o. Where's the pointing out of evidence to the contrary? Where's the alternate theory and discussion of how it better explains the evidence? Where's the substance? Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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BMG Member (Idle past 239 days) Posts: 357 From: Southwestern U.S. Joined: |
Hi RAZD.
I just wanted to thank you for being...well, you. I often am a reader of posts and must admit that your ability to unpack arguments is most impressive. It is a valuable tool for someone like myself who is still learning the ropes of logic and critical thinking and attempting to develop a foundation to lay these upon. Thanks again. AbE: spelling error. This message has been edited by Infixion, 04-16-2006 01:02 PM
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