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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and the bible: Round 2 - morality.
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 181 of 276 (111478)
05-29-2004 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by backtalk33
05-29-2004 4:25 PM


Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
backtalk33
If you do not believe that we are influenced by our "culture", and social trends, then you are living in a dream world. By and large our value systems are derived from what we learn from others.
Nonsense. You choose to accept what things about our culture or social trends or whatever will be a part of your life as a result of who you are as an individual.Since you always have choice you cannot pass off responsibility.Ever.That is the hard and cold fact of it.You may ignore your choices and take a path you later regret but do not make excuses for your actions.This is the essence of maturing as an adult.

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. "

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by backtalk33, posted 05-29-2004 4:25 PM backtalk33 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by backtalk33, posted 05-29-2004 5:21 PM sidelined has replied

backtalk33
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 276 (111480)
05-29-2004 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by sidelined
05-29-2004 5:12 PM


Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
Nonsense. You choose to accept what things about our culture or social trends or whatever will be a part of your life as a result of who you are as an individual.Since you always have choice you cannot pass off responsibility.Ever.That is the hard and cold fact of it.You may ignore your choices and take a path you later regret but do not make excuses for your actions.This is the essence of maturing as an adult.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose you'd be the only member of a cannibalist tribe refusing to eat the meat of the virgin who was slain for your god because 1. you'd know in your heart that it was wrong, 2. you would of course have the courage to descend from the entire group, and 3. you would ultimately be responsible for your own actions and you would never, never, resort to murder and cannibalism though you'd been raised by a tribe who accepted and encouraged these practices....right???
-Backtalk

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by sidelined, posted 05-29-2004 5:12 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 183 of 276 (111482)
05-29-2004 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by backtalk33
05-29-2004 5:21 PM


Re: What
does that have to do with anything?
The topic is homosexuality and the Bible.
So far, no one has been able to make a Biblical case that homosexuality is any more an abomination than eating shellfish.
Please feel free to try.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 184 of 276 (111485)
05-29-2004 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by backtalk33
05-29-2004 5:21 PM


Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
backtalk33
I suppose you'd be the only member of a cannibalist tribe refusing to eat the meat of the virgin who was slain for your god because 1. you'd know in your heart that it was wrong, 2. you would of course have the courage to descend from the entire group, and 3. you would ultimately be responsible for your own actions and you would never, never, resort to murder and cannibalism though you'd been raised by a tribe who accepted and encouraged these practices....right???
LOL Now who is living in a fantasy world.
Number 1 I do believe that I would indeed know it to be wrong {at least to me}. I suppose that would be no different from vegetarians or vegans rebelling aginst the rancher parents.I would rebel regardless since I find the idea of a god intellectually lazy and repugnant.
Number 2 I have been a loner my whole life and have seldom found the group dynamics to be helpful or even desireable but that is me.
Number 3 It would not matter if I took responibility for my actions or not. As I previously explained we are responible for them and it is only when we accept our responsibilty that we gain in maturity.
As for murder I am fully capable of violence to the point of taking a life as are you given the right circumstances.As for cannabilism it would depend on the virgins. Do they taste like chicken?LOL!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by backtalk33, posted 05-29-2004 5:21 PM backtalk33 has not replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 276 (111490)
05-29-2004 6:48 PM


Does Leviticus provide acceptable moral laws?
I will concede the point that the book of Leviticus proscribes homosexuality. However, it doesn't matter what Leviticus proscribes because Leviticus is not an acceptable guide to moral standards and cannot possibly be used to justify "God's will", unless of course, as I hinted earlier, God is no better than Satan.
Those of you who want to use this set of disgusting, perverted and immoral laws to pass judgement on the behavior of others should, at the very least, be willing to live by these laws yourselves.
To riVerRaT, backtalk, PecosGeorge, et. al.: Have you made any burnt offerings unto the lord lately? You're supposed to, you know. And not just any old burnt offerings, either, no no, it has to be a male without blemish. This is exceedingly important since God HATES blemishes. He doesn't seem to care much for females either. You'll find details of how to prepare your burnt offering in the first chapter:
3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
5 And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
6 And he shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into his pieces.
7 And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar, and lay the wood in order upon the fire:
8 And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
9 But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.
See, the male without blemish part is exceedingly important. You must never forget.
There's a bit more to it all, of course. You have to wring the head off of your burnt offering for one thing. There's lots of other fun stuff too. It's all waiting for you in your bible.
I wonder, backtalk, if you have fully met your commitment to God's law. When you gave birth, were you purified according to the law of Leviticus or are you still unclean? You know, even the virgin Mary found it necessary to go through these rituals after the birth of Jesus. I'm sure you'll want to do the same because obeying God's law seems to be very important to you. I hope you haven't defiled anything yet. If not, I'm sure there's still time to get right with God. You can find out what you must do to fulfill God's law and be purified in chapter 12 of Leviticus. It's all waiting for you in your bible.
PecosGeorge and riVerRaT will surely want to know what to do if they have a "running issue out of the flesh" or if they should accidently come into contact with their own semen. God's law as related in Leviticus has very specific instructions for what to do in chapter 15.
I'm sure backtalk will want to pay attention to chapter 15 as well. There are instructions for what to do when she menstruates:
19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.
20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.
21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.
There's more so you'd best look it up if you want to be sure to get right with God.
One thing you must be sure of is to never, ever, ever, ever look at anyone in your family when they are naked. From chapter 18:
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
So, when Mama gets old and can't live alone, you'd be best to ship her off to a nursing home rather than trying to care for her yourself. You don't want to run the risk of seeing her naked and violating God's law, do you? And for heaven's sake don't send your children to spend the night at grandmama's house. If she gives them a bath it'll be an abomination unto the lord!
Chapter 19 is interesting on several counts. In verse 19, we are assured by none other than God himself that these laws are important and not to be ignored:
Ye shall keep my statutes.
From that same verse:
neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
Time to clean out that wardrobe! We must get right with God, after all.
Good news for you straight guys: It's okay to rape a slave woman so long as she's engaged to be married. She will have to be scourged afterward, of course. You will have to find a male, unblemished ram and make him a burnt offering unto the lord, but no harm will come to you. Here are the details, from chapter 19:
20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
If you'll refer to chapters 20 and 21 you'll learn who all you must kill (including us evil homosexuals, I'm afraid). You'll also learn the proper method for buying slaves. I'll bet it'd be okay to make your slaves do your killing for you. What do you think?
As God mentioned earlier, it is important that you observe these laws. If you don't believe me, ask God. He says so himself, and warns of punishment in chapter 26:
16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
So Leviticus condemns homosexuality, does it? Do tell!

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 186 of 276 (111492)
05-29-2004 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Rrhain
05-29-2004 5:44 AM


Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
..as if there's any danger of that happening.
never said there was. Just stating the consequences.
Impossible. Humans are a part of nature and thus everything they do is in accordance with the laws of nature. Humans are incapable of doing anything unnatural. If it were unnatural, it would be impossible to do.
The laws of nature with respect to keeping the human race going. Our survival.
nd before you try some silly retort, remind yourself that there are gay animals, too. In fact, pretty much every single mammalian species out there has been observed to have gay members. Dolphins are particularly randy and about 25% of them are at the very least bisexual if not gay.
But do they love each other. Don't compare us to other species only when its convienent for you to do so.
I'm not sure but, I believe that other species on this planet will not have a chance to go to heaven like us. So I wouldn't compare us to them.
If you truly loved gay people, you would want them to receive equal treatment under the law.
Not so. If gay people loved me right back, and I wanted to steal from them, I'm sure they wouldn't vote for a rule to let me, just because they love me. I told you, I feel as though its wrong, and I feel as though its wrong in Gods eyes. I have just decided to not hate them for it, and would pull any gay person out of a burning car just the same. You too, I would.
Oh and stop judging me, because you don't have me figured out in the least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Rrhain, posted 05-29-2004 5:44 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by jar, posted 05-29-2004 7:49 PM riVeRraT has replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 187 of 276 (111497)
05-29-2004 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by riVeRraT
05-29-2004 7:24 PM


Re: Still looking for specifics.
riVeRraT
So far we are getting lots of opinion, but not one person has actually been able to support their Biblical Basis for thinking Homosexuality is sinful or, as some have said, an abomination.
In the hope of getting this back on track can you point to one verse that you believe justifies your beliefs?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by riVeRraT, posted 05-29-2004 7:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by riVeRraT, posted 05-29-2004 8:40 PM jar has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 188 of 276 (111500)
05-29-2004 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by MonkeyBoy
05-29-2004 11:18 AM


Re: No.
f we were all men then we could not reproduce. Therefore, according to your logic, it is wrong to be a man. Do you see how flawed this is? A very small percentage, I believe around 10%-15%, of the population are gay.
You missed the point.
What, self preservation? No one is suggesting that we all "become" gay, stop reproducing and destroy the human race. That is what you are afraid of, and it seems that you are projecting your fear.
Why is it that when someone doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle, that they automatically become afarid of them?
Thats imature thinking.
I never said that everyone would become gay, just what would happen if.
Every scripture you quoted backs up my thoughts.
Replace the word 'gay' in the above sentence with 'black', 'jewish', 'female' and 'disabled'. Then read those sentences out loud.
You don't know me at all. Don't judge me.
I do not have a problem with a single race or lifestyle, I accept all.
More than you will ever know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-29-2004 11:18 AM MonkeyBoy has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 189 of 276 (111504)
05-29-2004 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by berberry
05-29-2004 3:00 PM


Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
It shows. What I don't understand is why virtually every fundie I know can't speak, write or spell correctly. Why is it that anyone should take your arguments seriously when you won't even bother to learn your native tongue?
Because its not my job to spell correctly. I also could if I wanted too, but time is limited, I have a life you know.
Call me a fundie? lol.
How do you know what God's will is? Does he talk to you?
All the time, amen.
If that's true then God is a vacillating, vindictive genocidal maniac who approves of slavery and such punishments as stoning people to death. He gleefully orders his followers to kill innocent suckling babies. Why in hell should anyone care what such a monster as God thinks or wants? Further, why should we fear Satan? How can he be any worse than God?
Just because you don't understand Gods word, or glorification in judgement, doesn't give you the right to put it down.
You think that someone can't be smarter than you because they don't take the time to spell right.
You also insult the same person thinking you are making some sort of point. You are only displaying your anger.
If you don't like my point of view or Gods, thats too bad.
You are drifting off topic, and introducing your own personal problems here.
You seem to be angry at me, but I am not angry at you.
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 05-29-2004 07:18 PM

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 190 of 276 (111507)
05-29-2004 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by jar
05-29-2004 7:49 PM


Re: Still looking for specifics.
Yes, I like this verse.
But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [11] '
for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
This cleary shows Gods intention for man to be with woman, and be united as one.
Even though at the begining of this thread, it was said not to mention
Leviticus, that scripture pretty much sums it up. I see no need for any others.
But here is some more,
Judges
20 "You are welcome at my house," the old man said. "Let me supply whatever you need. Only don't spend the night in the square." 21 So he took him into his house and fed his donkeys. After they had washed their feet, they had something to eat and drink.
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him."
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, "No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing."
Disgraceful and vile.
We won't mention how many times the New testament mentions not to be sexually immoral.
That would include man with man, and woman with woman according to the OT by which the New testament was based on.
Romans
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Thou shall not commit adultry.
Since man and woman were created to be as one, adultry could only be if man left woman, or woman left man.
Webster defines adultry as:
Main Entry: adultery
Pronunciation: &-'d&l-t(&-)rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -teries
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of avoutrie, from Middle French, from Latin adulterium, from adulter adulterer, back-formation from adulterare
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
We all know what happened there.
1 Corinthians 6
8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I am by no means a bible expert, but this is what I came up with. I would have to conclude that it is against God according to the bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by jar, posted 05-29-2004 7:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 05-29-2004 9:18 PM riVeRraT has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 191 of 276 (111508)
05-29-2004 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by riVeRraT
05-29-2004 8:40 PM


Re: Well, so far there is nothing there.
Well, really, really weak.
Your first example has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. Don't care how much you stretch it, no matter how you twist it, there is nothing there that could point towards any proscription of homosexuality.
Good try on two but no ring. I say no ring. In that verse it is not as much what the folk wanted to do as it is breaking the old bedouin guest customs. The host is required to protect the guest, no matter what. If you want a really good explaination of this custom, check out the Koran.
Again with the Pauline papers, eh.
Please look at the whole thing and you'll find that Paul is ranting about a whole litany of behaviours. Paul was an aesthetic who frankly thought everyone should remain celibate until the second coming. If you just had to have sex, well then, he thought it was probably better with someone of the other sex. His biggest objection is towards any form of Promiscuity.
So if this is the basis, the best you can come up with, the easy solution is to allow gay marriages. That will cut down on promiscuity and Paul will be happy.
And Sodom & Gomorrah? Where in that is there ANY mention of homosexuality? I can tell you. There is NONE.
And finally, back with Paul again.
Nope, so far you got nothing really.
The best thing for you to do is get out and support Gay Marriages and then all will be okay.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by riVeRraT, posted 05-29-2004 8:40 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by riVeRraT, posted 05-30-2004 5:48 PM jar has replied

custard
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 276 (111510)
05-29-2004 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by jar
05-29-2004 5:34 PM


Re: What
So far, no one has been able to make a Biblical case that homosexuality is any more an abomination than eating shellfish.
That's another thing I have against the bible: it's blatant Ostraconophobia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 05-29-2004 5:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 05-29-2004 10:07 PM custard has not replied

custard
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 276 (111511)
05-29-2004 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by berberry
05-29-2004 6:48 PM


Re: Does Leviticus provide acceptable moral laws?
Berberry, you are the man. Nice research.
or if they should accidently come into contact with their own semen
I hate it when that happens.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by berberry, posted 05-29-2004 6:48 PM berberry has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 194 of 276 (111512)
05-29-2004 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by custard
05-29-2004 9:53 PM


Re: I wonder what the Biblical
position on The Wizzho Custom Assortment Number 4, Crunchy Frog?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by custard, posted 05-29-2004 9:53 PM custard has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 195 of 276 (111522)
05-30-2004 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by riVeRraT
05-29-2004 10:40 AM


Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
riVeRraT writes:
quote:
Thanks for the English lesson, but I could care less about my wrting skills.
"Couldn't." You couldn't care less. If you could care less, the obvious next question is to ask, "How much less could you care?"
And you should care about your writing skills because this is a forum that exists solely through written words. If you cannot express yourself well using words, then you are condemning yourself to be misunderstood.
quote:
I have no desire to be good at it, my point was still made regardless of how I wrote it.
Incorrect. The exact opposite is true. Your point cannot be made unless you write it well.
quote:
The law of nature being that a man and a woman must have sex to reproduce
True, but irrelevant. You are committing the logical error of affirming the consequent.
While it is true that reproduction requires sex, it is not true that sex requires reproduction. Unless you are willing to state that sex is only supposed to be used for reproduction, then the fact that humans can only reproduce through heterosexual couplings has nothing to do with whether or not sex between people of the same sex is immoral.
quote:
God's will is for us to live and reproduce. How can we do this if we were all gay?
Are we in any danger of that? Do you seriously think that there is any real chance that the entire world will be gay?
And don't you think that if it were a question of the entire world being gay, we would all step up and "do our duty" to help continue the species?
quote:
For you, "if" he does exsist, then you will find out, what happens after that is between you and him, not me.
BZZZZT!
Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, riVeRraT. Johnny, tell him what parting gifts he has!
Well, Bob, riVeRraT has won himself a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of his life fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, riVeRraT gets a reward of going straight to Hades for his hubris. He'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for his continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations.
But, he won't get hungry because he'll have an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat.
You didn't really think that the god that truly exists was the Christian one, did you?

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by riVeRraT, posted 05-29-2004 10:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by riVeRraT, posted 05-30-2004 6:10 PM Rrhain has replied

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