God and the human mind

Would you say that god doesn't care if I believe in it or not?

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The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current. For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

Absolutely.If there is a GOD, one capable of creating the universe, of thinking into existence all the beautiful and aesthetic rules we are discovering, who understands intuitively the relationship between gravity and the other forces, would he care what you or I believed about him? Do you worry if microbes believe in you, or if dirt believes in you?That's one of the reasons I disagree so often with other Christians that say atheists are damned or if you deny Jesus you'll be damned.How silly.Something with so little self confidence that it could become upset if I didn't believe in it is not something that could have created the Universe.Early Judaism and Christianity wrote all kinds of things into the Company Handbook (called the Bible) that were solely designed to increase the value of the concession. If you don't say these words you're not a member. If you don't cough up the two chickens and a goat you will be sanctioned. But they are only there for the franchise. It's like wearing the apron at Wendy's.I like to take folk back to Matthew 25 Look through that. Where does it say anything about what you profess to believe? If you live that, then you have loved GOD. Even if you do not believe in GOD, you have loved him.But as I said in the other post, even if humans had never evolved, it would say nothing about the existence of GOD. Humans did not create GOD, GOD created the universe.edited to add an h to aesthetic. GOD never made me a spelling bee champ. This message has been edited by jar, 09-08-2004 05:38 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Phatboy I do not see how using critical thinking as applies to me would be a problem. It may be a little overboard to apply citical thinking to surmise my existence but being as I do exist the application of critical thinking would only buttress the fact rather than destroy it.
I am sorry to disagree with you and,of course,you are entitled to your beliefs but it is not your god that is subject to investigation by critical thinking it is your own mind and its capability to distinguish between phenomena that have some level of likelihood and those that are unlikely.
This does not mean that god does not exist but if god is incapable of withstanding investigation by critical thinking of human beings perhaps we may wonder why?

Hangdawg13 I would like to question the basis for this statement.Is there evidence for such a statement or is this simply a belief on your part to support your faith in god?

Darth MalThis is way off topic but I had to ask if in your signature it is supposed to read we are the bog? Do you not mean borg?I also wanted to recommend a new picture of the month from a magazine called free inquiry.There is an excellent cartoon on al-qaeda terrorists on page 16 that I find hilarious.Perhaps you may consider it?

At the risk of seeing adminmoose's big magic wand again, I'm going to answer this one. No, it is supposed to be as it is. I guess you have to be a physics or electronic + star trek person to get the joke. Read both sentences and it will make sense to you. Link please.

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The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current. For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

jar I enjoy this paragraph but I think in order for it to be a proper theistic endevour it is definitly limited by our language.We cannot be seriously using thinking in the same way we would for humans since this requires a material existence in order for us to think. That is a highly well thought out statement and I agree 110%.POTM time for you jar.Bravo and well said!

Darth MalI thought I did understand. The famous phrase by the borg is We are the borg! Resistence is futile! And I also know about the relationship of R=V/I.
As for the link unfortunately the website for free inquiry does not include the comic. If I can get a copy of it somehow scanned I will see what I can do.Thanks.

We are limited, very limited, in language and in understanding. But every day we learn a little more. Someday we may even be able to read GOD's handwriting.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Actually, I'm considering changing it. It requires too much thinking for it to be an effective joke. At least one other person here has already complained that he couldn't understand.

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The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current. For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

Thank you for your reply.I said: you said: My basis for this statement lies in the fact that time is a property of this physical universe. God, the supreme being who created the universe, cannot be bound by what he has instantiated. If this were the case, God was created when the universe was created, and God could not have been the creator because there would be no capability for God to choose until afterwards.God transcends time and space. It is incorrect to think of God as an old man with a lot of time on his hands, and it is also incorrect to think of God as mundanely rushing through all reality in an instant. He is fully experiencing and fully transcending everything because everything exists in his mind so to speak. If you really want to make an attempt to understand God, I think one of the first things you have to wrap your mind around is a being that transcends all dimensions.Not only does this make sense to me logically, but it is supported by scripture. As far as physical evidence? Well that would be equivalent to proving God exists, which can only be done by God when he so chooses.

I don't know if I understand it or not. I always found it a funny play on the "we are the borg, resistance is futile". But then I also like good shaggy dog stories.lfen

This is strictly my opinion, Darth, but I think that in general, God is concerned with the evolution of each individual to the fullest extent of their potential. I believe that God understands you in ways that no human psychologist ever could. Even your close relatives can only scratch the surface of your unique depths of character. Since He understands you so well, He is in one sense unaffected by your free will choices and decisions which deny His existance. His love for your full potential development and fruition towards relationship with Him demands that He cannot ignore you, however. The issue is not your worship of or lack of attention towards Him. The issue is His love for you.(My opinion)

Then why the hell am I going to hell?

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The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current. For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

Great topic Sidelined.You asked:

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Did you in anyway investigate into the possibilty of self-deception and other means of fooling yourself such as confirmation bias,wishful thinking,selective thinking,post hoc reasoning

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Thereafter followed the most astounding three pages of the usual testamonial dialogue that either completely failed to address the questions or completely confirmed your unstated premise.Some highlights:Mike the Wiz:

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There's no point, I'd still believe if I had nothing. That's the way I am. I think you could even call it an evolutionary religious trait if you want. I don't know.

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Prophex:

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Realization, realizing that my doubts were wrong, and most of the time mistakes.

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and

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Being themselves, having stronger faith.

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and

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Questioning the Bible, God's existance, logically looking at the Bible, but all of this becomes extremely useless, a waste of time...

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Chris Porteus:

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I have gone days without talking with Him but not doubting his existence. More like not being grateful. I have thought about it. Said to myself there is no God. But I could never believe that. It's just a fact for me that he exists. He's my best friend and I can't shake him. It's like I know he's there and I can't convince myself he's not. I take a wiz in the morning and as I go I try to change mindsets, can't do it. I would be living in denial. Like seeing a chair in front of you and not acknowledging it's there. It's hard to explain. But that's why I could never be convinced there is no God because he's right there to me.

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Hangdawg:

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Whatever arguments exist do not bother me because my faith does not rest on arguments. It is just that: faith. ...... Confirmation bias? It doesn't matter.

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Phatboy:

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If I were in class and involved in an experiment, I would use the critical thinking skills that you describe. To use these once I knew that God was/is with me were as innappropriate as using them on you, sidelined. I will admit reading the posts of serious atheists such as are found on Internet Infidels..It is alien thinking for me to question something as obvious as God.

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and

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It is true that I want Him to exist. Perhaps critical thinkers such as yourself would start out prefering that He did NOT exist. I see what you say about examining my faith critically. I guess that my conclusion is that I would be very uncomfortable without it.

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Way to go guys. You largely avoided answering Sidelined's questions, took yet another opportunity to preach and convey your testimonials and at the very same time confirmed the exact point Sideline was investigating: that you guys do nothing to determine whether your faith is merely self deception and actually avoid doing anything that might confirm that it is.Brilliant.Edited for typos.This message has been edited by Gilgamesh, 09-09-2004 03:33 AM