What's so great about the death of Jesus?

This is not a thread to discuss what the death of Jesus means for us - it's to discuss what it meant for him.After reading some of the threads, I've been thinking about the death of Jesus. What in particular was meant to be so great about this act?If Jesus is a representation of the christian godhead - So what? he's immortal and all-powerful and thus knows that fleeting moment has no real impact for someone beyond the reach of linear time.If Jesus is a seperate entity - So what? Is there some suggestion that God will be sending him off to hell? As far as I can see, he knows that he off to sit in a big chair upstairs.Where is the real hardship in this? I just don't get it.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 20 February 2005 07:47 AMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 20 February 2005 08:31 AM

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

That's a great question and one that needs to be discussed.Please understand that I can only speak from my own knowledge and perspective and there will certainly be many who disagree.Jesus, during his thirty-three years on earth, was human. This is an Article of Faith, best shown in the Nicene Creed. Here is the part of the Creed that concerns Jesus. I've bolded the parts I'll discuss.He was made man! That actually means, to those of us who are Creedal Christians, that Jesus was a man, a human. He needed food to eat. He hurt if he stepped on a sharp rock and he bleed if cut. He ate, he defecated, he worried and he doubted. His reactions to things, to joy or sorrow, pleasure or pain, living and dying were no different than anyone else.On the day he was crucified two others also suffered the same fate. His torment and pain was no different than theirs. His death was no different then theirs.He did have a knowledge of what was to happen to him, both the suffering and the ultimate resurection, but as Jesus the Man, the suffering was real and immediate while the knowledge of the coming resurection was, as for all of us today, a belief. He was MAN. As such, he might well believe he was to be resurected but as man, it could never be more than that, a belief, while all the rest was very, very real and immediate.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So in your take - Jesus is a seperate being from God? He exists as a seperate being from god in heaven?

No, not at all.Does that sound confusing? Wouldn't surprise me if it did. LOLLet me try to explain. I believe Jesus has existed forever. He existed before his birth and after his death.BUT...There is a thirty-three year period. During that period, as it is laid out in the Nicene Creed, Jesus became MAN. During that thirty-three year period he was Man, an extraordinary man, but only man. For that period he had all of the limitation we all face, was a vulnerable as any of us, probably drank too much a weddings and suffered the same hangover we have all experienced at times.edited to add missing spaces. (can nothing be missing?)This message has been edited by jar, 02-20-2005 11:06 AM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Hi J, A man who could walk on water.
A man who could raise the dead.
A man who could cure the blind.
A man who could cure leprosy.
A man who could calm a storm.
A man who resurrected himself.
A man who exorcised demons and was recognised by them.
A man who cured the lame.
A man who ascended to heaven.
A man who was a master of disguise.
A man who cured a withered hand.
A man who could kill trees with a thought.
A man who knew the future.
A man who regularly talked to God.I think Jesus had to be more than a man.It is difficult to imagine that everything attributed to Jesus is within the abilities of a man.But, who knows, maybe you are right.Brian.

So he doesn't remember existing before his birth?Why would he need belief when his superpowers allowed him to do anything he wanted to and he had regular chats with God and Angels?

The problem, I think, is that the entire concept of the Trinity is a pretty illogical concept, more the result of political battles between groups vying for power in the early Church rather than sound Biblical eisegesis.At any rate, I find the hyper-macho action-hero version of Christ that is so popular among some to be rather unimpressive for the very reasons that you mention.Much more profound is a human Christ, with or without being divine, and whether or not Jesus remembered much before his birth. Even if Jesus was God himself, and even if Jesus knew very well that he was God, it would still be human nature to doubt it all, even to doubt his own sanity. Now that would make his sacrifice more profound.

Actually Brian, in all of those GOD performed the miracles and Jesus was pretty clear about that. He even said on many occassion that it was not his actions but the individuals faith.You also have to understand that I am perfectly willing to believe that many of the claims were added after the fact by those creating a RELIGION as opposed to a religion.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

From reading the Bible and other contemporary sources it doesn't appear that he did. During his life it seems he was simply human, with all the handicaps and limitations we all face. He got hungry. He enjoyed parties. He slept. He got tired. He walked. He spoke. He sweated and most likely stank. There's no indication that he had superpowers during his life. As I replied to Brian above, the miracles were performed by GOD. Had he used such powers, for example when tempted in the desert, would his message have had any import for us humans? In addition, having frequent chats with GOD and even Jesus is not that unusual. I often talk to him, particularly during those quiet moments when contemplation is possible and those frightening moment when it is impossible. But I am no less human, would suffer no less if crucified.There are also places in the story of Jesus life when he was doubtful, when he was tempted. One of the key themes is that he surmounted those moments and went on.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar do you believe Jesus is also God?

I think that's getting too off topic Chris. Maybe in some other thread.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Does he quite literally appear to you ?Do Angels and dead people quite Literally appear to you?

Topic CK. How do those question relate to the topic?Trying to get back to the question of whether or not Jesus actually did suffer and have human limitations, I have pointed out that he ate, that he bled, that he had doubts and fears. Those are all documented in the story of his life.Is there some reason to believe that he did not get hungry, did not bleed, did not suffer, did not have doubts and fears? In other words, is there some reason to believe that he was not human and existing under the same limitations as you or me?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think establishing how you see Jesus would answer some questions. If he is just a man than Charles could see the sacrifice easily. If you believe he is also a God however than your explanation towards his sacrifice would be conflicting with your beliefs