Are we prisoners of sin

Tell us Cedre, how it is that this virtuous and pure teaching HAS end up in a bloodbath?
Do you know nothing of history? In particular Christian history?

So how do you feel about other brands of Christianity? Christianity has something like 33,820 different denominations. If one branch doesn't follow the same interpretation of bible that you follow do you dismiss their teachings as plainly man's ideas or man's ideas mingled with satanic ideas? How can you be sure that you have the right branch of Christianity?

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"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." -Albert Einstein

Oh, so in the following scripture God is really not telling the truth when he says that he will "change his mind" about destroying Judah if they repent? You know this because??? Just pulling crap out of the Christian apologetic grab bag (aka Josh McDowell's 'Evidence Demands a Verdict' and other religious garbage), huh?This is all of course assuming the following:1. God exists. How do we know God exists? Because the Bible says he does. How do we know the Bible is correct? Because the Bible itself says so.
2. God is good. Again this claim is wrapped in circular reasoning because how do we known if God is good? Christians claim God is good because the Bible tells us so. And how do we know the Bible is true and correct? Because God wrote the bible.
3. God is all powerful. Again the only source of this is a 2000+ year old conglomeration of religious writings with non-existent independent evidence backing up any of these claims.
4. The Bible is 100% divinely inspired and inerent. Dito.
5. Nobody who helped write the Bible were soley influenced by the writings of those before them. Rather God dictated to each of them, mono e mono (otherwise where do we draw the line between divinely inspired truth and revisionistic story telling).That is a big pill of assumptions you are wanting us non-believers to blindly swallow. You might want to stop preaching and start producing some ounce of evidence to back up your claims.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Hi Rahvin,You and I obviously see God in very different lights. Im sure dogma and religious untruth are playing a part in that which is unfortunate.

If that were so, then why did A&E decide that their nakedness was bad?
God did not see it that way. That does not sound like they had the same knowledge as God. God does not die. Yet A&E died. They are not like God at all. so is parenting where there are no boundaries and no consequences.Regarding msg 255. (this is Paul speaking to Jewish christians explaining that they were no longer required to follow the Mosaic law)

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Romans 7:7 "Can it be that YOU do not know, brothers, (for I am speaking to those who know law,) that the Law is master over a man as long as he lives? 2For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is alive; but if her husband dies, she is discharged from the law of her husband... 4So, my brothers, YOU also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ,...6But now we have been discharged from the Law..."

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some look to themselves, others look to God. Its pretty simple really.

Yes you can.Its a tragic record of mans domination of man.

a christian church that actually practices Christianity is one in a million

you find one that teaches from the bible and not doctrines of men.

perhaps Cedre was thinking that this forum was for discussion on Faith & Belief

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If that were so, then why did A&E decide that their nakedness was bad?
God did not see it that way. That does not sound like they had the same knowledge as God.

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Because then they knew right from wrong. This is what happens when we over analyze a story. God is the author of right and wrong according to you, so you tell me why he allowed them to run around naked. You've been shown the scripture where God said they knew what he knew about good and evil. Stop changing the story!

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God does not die. Yet A&E died. They are not like God at all.

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That's why he threw them out of the Garden so they couldn't eat from the Tree of Life and be immortal. Read the story! Yes the tree according to the story imparts life. This is getting tedious. You're not even comprehending the basics of the story or you're just being difficult.

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Regarding msg 255. (this is Paul speaking to Jewish christians explaining that they were no longer required to follow the Mosaic law)

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Read the book! Paul is speaking to both Jews and Gentiles. You know, Jews first then to the Gentiles. Chapter 1 is to Gentiles and Chapter 2 is to the Jews. Pretty much telling them they are all sinners. The rest of the book is making his point of why they should follow Christ. Like I said, create a need and then fill it.If you notice the marriage illustration he uses in Romans 7 is the Roman law version. As I understand it the Jews were not monogamous in that era. Sometime after 900 CE they changed. Paul wasn't talking about the Mosaic Law. Just the Roman legal system in general.We all still have to follow the laws of our civilization, no matter what Paul says.Jesus didn't teach the Gentiles.
The death of Jesus didn't take away the laws of civilization.
The death of Jesus didn't make it impossible for humans to make mistakes or break the laws of civilization.Gentiles never were under the Mosaic law and we still aren't, no matter how many "laws" Christianity pulls from the past.Paul was trying to bring about the fullness of the Gentiles so that the Kingdom of God would come about.So Gentiles may break the law, but they don't automatically sin. Sin is related to religion. So you can say a Christian sins, if you ever figure out what rules they are to follow anyway, but it isn't fair to say that non-Christians sin if they aren't following the unknown or vague rules of Christianity, the laws of Judaism, or any other religious rules.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

So religion requires no evidence to back it up? How do you except people to make informed choices without any semblance of evidence and logic? Is this not the definition of what blind belief/faith is, believing something despite contradictory or lack of evidence? So why provide any evidence at all to back up any of your religious beliefs, if all you need is blind, unquestioning faith that it is correct? Why are you here on this forum trying to defend your religious beliefs if it doesn't need to be defended aka doesn't need evidence to back it up?Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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perhaps Cedre was thinking that this forum was for discussion on Faith & Belief

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The faith or belief has to have some basis and this board allows discussion of those foundations. When it comes to Christianity, there are a lot of different doctrines and how those doctrines came to be.This thread concerning the idea that we are prisoners of sin develops from Paul's letters. So it is fair game to question if what Paul presented was in line with what Jesus taught and how it applies to us today.Just because Paul believed that gentiles were sinners and like Jews were under sin" doesn't necessarily make it so. Condemnation of Gentiles
Paul condemned the Gentiles. Did Jesus?If you hadn't gotten so off track in the Adam and Eve story, we might have been able to explore Paul's Gospel.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

And which one would that be?

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Christianity has around 33,820 different denominations. So...then, maybe there is none?