Re-enactments of the Noah's Ark voyage?

Walt Brown received a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology(MIT), graduated from West Point, a tenured professor at the US Air Force Academy,taught physics, etc...
P.S. You don't graduate from West Point become a tenured professor, recieve a ph D in mechanical engineering from (MIT) without understanding the sciences, etc...

Thanks for reminding me of looking in this site, Ned.Here is a short blurb on the hydroplate nonsense. Basically, the problem with Brown's ideas is that water from so deep within the earth would be boiling hot - superheated, in fact, so that it would become steam when it erupted. Noah, his family, all the critters on the ark would have been steamed. Also, so much water from so deep erupting so violently would leave unmistakable geologic traces that simply are not found.Another problem is that continents cannot move as fast as Browns insists they did. Continents are solid rock and are connected to the upper mantle, also solid rock. Solid rock does not flow or deform quickly - any force that tries to move it quickly will shatter it. Plate tectonics is feasible (in fact, it's observed today!) because over long periods of time, under high heat and pressure, rock can slowly flow and deform.By the way, here is another general description of problems with the Noachian flood.[This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 12-27-2003]

Shall we get back to the feasibility of floating the boat, and keep the feasibiltiy of the flood itself confined to elsewhere?Adminnemooseus

I just browsed his site, thought he agreed with you that plates couldn't of move all that fast, however, he explained the movement happened quickly via water/steam hydraulics, and that the plates literally crushed under the continental mass, pressing down on the malleable basalt inner earth, raising up the plateaus, first then the mountains, etc... explaining why the scientists are finding fractured metamorphic rock in the kola Russian super deep well, German deep well, etc....proving that under the solid granite mantle is fractured metomophic rock and water, the slow moving evolutionists techtonic plate theory doesn't address the fractured rock they are finding under the granite mantle, etc...

First, I agree with Adminnemooseus: let's return to discussing how feasible Noah's Ark would be, and what it would take to re-enact Noah's legendary voyage. We can discuss the possibility of Noah's Flood elsewhere.Whatever:
lpetrich, Like simple Water Ram Pumps that require moving water to operate, moves water uphill without electricity, via water hammer like principles, the wave action would of provided this source of free energy, etc...That would be mechanically complicated; show how it could be built with Bronze Age technology. I'm not sure if there is a simple way of estimating the maximum rate of energy extraction from waves of different sizes; maybe some wave-power site might have some engineering details. However, the maximum pump rate should be easier to estimate, since it is constrained by the amount of energy per unit mass needed to lift water from the Ark's lower levels to somewhere above the waterline.(a lot of stuff on the Flood itself...)
(Walt Brown's galloping-continental-plates theory...)P.S. I'm not sure on the Ram pump principle, if the wave energies could be used to generate a siphon, all one needs to do is to establish a siphon, and the waters could be siphoned continously, etc... A siphon CANNOT make its water exit higher than it entered. The water goes up, but it MUST come down again further into the siphon. Unless the Ark followed very special laws of physics, that is.Furthermore, a siphon's height is limited by air pressure, because that's what pushes the water upwards in it. Thus, one working on water has an upper limit of 10 m (30 ft). This is less than the Ark's vertical dimension, though that would be OK if the Ark's displaced-water volume is less than half its total volume.(Walt Brown's credentials...)Do the credentials of mainstream scientists also count? But that's a subject for another thread.

What about an hull pool, all waste flows to this hull pool in the center of the ark, the rising and falling within the wave, allowing wastes to enter and exit, self cleaning, the top of the hull pool would also act as an air pump, drawing air into an out of the ark, etc...

whatever writes:

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P.S. Stuff like there is more than enough waters in the ocean to cover the earth 1/2 mile with water, if the earth was a smooth sphere

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Ah, but the earth isn't a smooth sphere. It's lumpy and bumpy and Mt. Everest was still 5 miles tall back in 2250 BCE.There simply isn't enough water to flood the earth. If there were, the earth would already be flooded right now.

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kjv psalm 104:8

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This doesn't help you as it does not say that the ocean floors fell, the mountains rose, or any extra-terrestrial source of water appeared:Psalms 104:8: They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.This verse is talking about how water flows from the mountain rivers, through the valleys, out into the seas.This doesn't help solve the problem of the flood. If there were enough water on the earth right now to flood it, then the earth would be flooded right now. Since it isn't, it is obvious that there isn't enough water to flood the earth. One would need an extra-terrestrial source to flood the earth and then one would need to jettison the water back out into space in order to get the dry land back.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

jazzlover_PR writes:

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By the way, radiocarbon is not reliable in giving accurate dates going back thousands of years.

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Incorrect. That is the precise time period where radiocarbon dating is best. It starts to fail after tens of thousands of years.

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AiG believes that Noah's Flood should be dated to about 4,300 years ago.

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As well they should...biblical chronology puts the flood at about 2250 BCE.But there's a problem with putting the flood there: There are many civilizations that were around at that time and none of them noticed the fact that they were all supposed to die by drowning. The Chinese and the Egyptians seem to have passed the time under five miles of water blissfully unaware of all that water.The Great Pyramid was constructed 300 years before the flood. It shows absolutely no sign of water damage. How could something built literally centuries before the flood manage to survive without a single water mark?------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

whatever:
What about an hull pool...Try again. That hull pool would have the same water level as the surrounding ocean, which will necessarily be above the lower levels of the Ark. The only plus of this idea is that this pool would be walled off from the waves of the surrounding ocean.

The hull pool, most often known as a "moon pool", is a widely-spread idea and is endorsed by none other than Kent Hovind (Points to Ponder about the Flood, point 5). I think Ron Wyatt came up with it first, claiming to see one in his scans of his "ark". It's been discussed here (Noahs ark is a physical impossibility).

As long as the hull pool was protected from overflowing into the ark, the wave action would cause it to act as an air pump, causing the air pressure within the ark to rise, positive ventilation, etc... causing the hull pool level to drop, and the wastes to continually flow into the lowered hull pool, the waves mixing action within the hull pool, diluting the wastes continually, keeping the atmosphere in the ark fresh, etc...P.S. With the Ram Pump idea, using another hull pool, you would only need a containment room to act as an air vessel, the wave action acting as the RAM, a simple check valve, and a smaller sealed line tapped into the bottom of this air containment area above the check valve, to deliver water hydraulically, through this smaller line to the top of the ark, etc...the animals would have water continually, the wastes would be flushed continually, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 12-28-2003]

This is all infeasible!But don't let my personal incredulity dampen your enthusiasm. As lpetrich orginally asked, why doesn't someone build one of these things to prove that it's feasible?

All these details are fine. However, not very meaningful unless you feel you've been charged by God with rewriting the Bible to fill in the details that were inadveratantly left out before.Meanwhile, what about the basic engineering that must have been done by the numerous engineers who are also creation scientists? Since it has been claimed, now and then, that the ark is an engineering impossibility I would think that they would be only too glad to demonstrate how wrong this is?------------------
Common sense isn't

Concerning the idea of a ram pump.Please notice the information gleaned from this website and tell me if you can see how to implement the principles with the restrictions listed here.http://www.lifewater.ca/ram_pump.htmHydraulic ram pumps are a time-tested technology that use the energy of a large amount of water falling a small height to lift a small amount of that water to a much greater height. In this way, water from a spring or stream in a valley can be pumped to a village or irrigation scheme on the hillside.Depending on the difference in heights between the inlet pipe and the outlet pipe, these water pumps will lift 1-20 percent of the water that flows into it. In general, a ram can pump approximately one tenth of the received water volume to a height ten times greater than the intake. A hydraulic ram pump is useful where the water source flows constantly and the usable fall from the water source to the pump location is at least 91 cm (3 ft).Since ram pumps can only be used in situations where falling water is available, their use is restricted to three main applications:-lifting drinking water from springs to settlements on higher ground.
-pumping drinking water from streams that have significant slope.
-lifting irrigation water from streams or raised irrigation channels------------------
Chemical kinetics firmly restrains time's arrow in the taut bow of thermodynamics for milliseconds to millennia.

The hydraulic ram was invented in 1793 by the Montgolfier brothers, their original design, shows a pressurized vessel, a valve that allows flow one way, a cannon ball that develops a water hammer, as the flow stops suddenly, etc...Instead of an opened hull pool, it would need to be a closed hull pool, The ark's up and down motion caused by the waves, would cause a water hammmer effect on the enclosed hull pool, with a smaller opening from this pool to the containment vessel, with a check valve, to maintain the pressure built up in the containment vessel, that would hydraulically push the water up an outlet located above the check valve on the bottom of the containment vessel, to the top of the ark, etc...HowStuffWorks - Learn How Everything Works!l=http://www.cat.org.uk/information/tipsheets/hydram.html