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Author | Topic: Religious children have harder time between fact and fiction | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Not that it matters what CS believes Exactly.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Whether he believes it or not is irrelevant to the topic. Does he have a harder time distinguishing fact from fiction than if he had been raised with a strictly secular education? I don't see any evidence of that. Show me where he says that he doesn't believe it himself. And the topic is about children. Even if they do have a harder time as children they may still grow out of it as adults. I grew up in an environment that "should" have made me a creationist but it never did.
Tangle writes:
It's not an assumption; it's a conclusion based on your posts in this thread.
And btw, don't make assumptions, I know as much as CS does about what Catholics are taught and are supposed to believe.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Because, I think, having a few "silly" beliefs doesn't render Catholic children unable to distinguish between fact and fiction as bad as the Creationist approach of indoctrinating children with a wholly anti-science mentality. Of course you don't....because you are a catholic and have to defend your faith. I am saying that those "silly" beliefs are exactly why religious kids have trouble differentiating fact from fiction because you don't tell them that those 'silly" beliefs are silly: you treat them the same as you do actual facts (even if you don't hammer home the veracity or lack thereof of them).
but the article in the OP just looked at "church-going" versus "not church-going". Sorry, CS. It wasn't about "church going vs not", it is about secular vs church going (which implies religous).
quote: You're going to have to do better than "I am a catholic, so I think it's better than all the other religions"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
CS writes: Exactly. It doesn't matter but it IS interesting. Why are you so shy? There's a problem of course. Transubstantiation is the defining miracle and qualifier of Catholicism. You promote yourself as a Catholic Scientist - the problem is obvious - bread and wine can't, scientifically, be the body and blood of Christ. So, what are you a scientist or a Catholic?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Of course you don't....because you are a catholic and have to defend your faith. No, that's not the reason.
I am saying that those "silly" beliefs are exactly why religious kids have trouble differentiating fact from fiction because you don't tell them that those 'silly" beliefs are silly: you treat them the same as you do actual facts (even if you don't hammer home the veracity or lack thereof of them). And I'm saying that the Creationists are worse than the Catholics, for the reasons I've been explaining. There's a fundamental difference between "science is the enemy" and "we believe some weird stuff". I think an anti-science foundation would have greater effects on the ability to distinguish fact from fiction.
Sorry, CS. It wasn't about "church going vs not", it is about secular vs church going (which implies religous). I was going from memory... What I said came from reading this:
quote: But they do categorize them further:
quote: I think it would be interesting to look at the difference between Catholic children and Evangelical (or Creationist) children. While I expect they both do worse than the secular kids, I think the Catholics would do better than the Evangelicals. Do you disagree?
You're going to have to do better than "I am a catholic, so I think it's better than all the other religions" I haven't said anything remotely like that.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
the substance, i.e. its essence, Is this "essence" quantifiable? I have no idea ... If you don't measure any difference is that because ...
(okay I'll keep quiet now ... except to say that it still smacks of cannibalism to me ... maybe you need cannabis beforehand to get the full experience ... ) enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Tangle writes:
On a certain level, I believe in Santa Claus: Santa is us ... You don't actually believe this stuff do you? And who's to say that the element of Santa in us is due to the spirit of St. Nick pushing us ... ?
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Love Pogo - best comic strip every in my youth. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
No, that's not the reason.
You're going to have to do better than "I am a catholic, so I think it's better than all the other religions" I haven't said anything remotely like that. It may not be the reason for you consciously, but it is what you are doing. At any rate, I am unsure we are close enough to the topic anymore because I think it is an entirely different subject to study which religious groups believe more fantasy. It's a bit like asking "who is the tallest hobbit?". All of you teach fiction as fact. If you didn't, there wouldn't be any asses in the pews.
I think it would be interesting to look at the difference between Catholic children and Evangelical (or Creationist) children. While I expect they both do worse than the secular kids, I think the Catholics would do better than the Evangelicals. Do you disagree? Given 400 years to consider facts, yes, any group can learn accept them. But then again: what is the catholic church's stance on contraception? On gay marriage? sure, they begrudgingly accept evolution, but only the theistic kind. So I suppose it is a step in the right direction. On the other hand, even creationists are making concessions.... I remain unconvinced that any given catholic is less susceptible to fantasy as fact than any given fundie. It's just a difference kind of fantasy.Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Are you lambasting them because they rise to meet the changing needs of their followers or because you believe they're only doing it for their own sake?
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jon writes: Are you lambasting them because they rise to meet the changing needs of their followers or because you believe they're only doing it for their own sake? The latter.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It may not be the reason for you consciously, but it is what you are doing. Nope, its really not.
I remain unconvinced that any given catholic is less susceptible to fantasy as fact than any given fundie. This isn't about any given one, its about the children.
Given 400 years to consider facts, yes, any group can learn accept them. Children don't live for 400 years
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Yea I caught this article. It's pretty darn subjective to me and far from being a "controlled experiment". But the thing that made me laugh the most is that this article's roots stem from trying to prove that God doesn't exist. The exact same thing as trying to prove He exist's. What is that about trying to prove a false negative? So to me this study is just as bogus as creation science, i.e. NOT science at all.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Yea I caught this article. It's pretty darn subjective to me and far from being a "controlled experiment". I don't think it was that bad. The only criticism I'd give is that their sample size could have been bigger. And think about it: Why wouldn't kids who were taught that fictional stories were true have a harder time distinguishing between fact and fiction?
But the thing that made me laugh the most is that this article's roots stem from trying to prove that God doesn't exist. I didn't see that at all. What part of the study made you think that?
So to me this study is just as bogus as creation science, i.e. NOT science at all. You're gonna have to support that accusation more if you want to convince anybody.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1532 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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I think one thing being overlooked is that there is a cultural side to religion inaddition to the spiritual side.
I do not take communion anymore because I no longer believe in transubstantiation. However, I lie to my young daughter (8) and try to raise her in accordance to the catechisms. Some day when she gets older she will be faced with the same realizations as many of us had to face. For now she is a child who still believes in magic."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs |
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
hooah writes:
Don't confuse "the Catholic Church" with the official position of the heirarchy. Your own reference says:
But the Catholic Church doesn't say it is philisophical.quote:There is a diversity of opinion and understanding in the Church - i.e. among the members of the Church.
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