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Author | Topic: True Freedom | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Out of all the philosophers that you have studied, which one seems to ring true for you? In other words, which philosopher that you have studied (and lets not include Jesus) seems to hit the nail on the head for you?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
prophex writes: We can agree that Capitalism usually produces Robber Barons and wealthy individuals. ...men in power attempting to give just enough to satisfy the masses, while a government of wealthy elites, like the founding fathers hold power. Theoretically, the idea of freedom from possessions sounds very Lennonesque. To Wit: IMAGINE (by John Lennon) Imagine there's no HeavenIt's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countriesIt isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamerBut I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessionsI wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamerBut I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one
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ikabod Member (Idle past 4522 days) Posts: 365 From: UK Joined: |
i think freedom is one of those words our language has made to be a oppersite to how the natural world is .
like cold , we talk about cold as if its a quanity and how things get colder .. when if fact its heat engery we are talking about the world imposes a wide range of constrains apon use , what we call freedom is a label for the amount of constraint we are experiencing ... there is no measure of freedom , no absolute point of max freedom , only a scale of constraint . we are constrained biologically by out bodies and whay we can get them to do .. By our interlectual developement .. we cant all understand the great philosiphers , let alone try to use the imparted ideas we sufffer cultural constraint in how we behave , and this even dircets our so called rebelions shape economic constrains go with out saying as do political ones every time we "make our self free" we are trying to deal with a certain constraint , and every time our route is built apon and takes us to a nother set of constraints . let us rebel vs the king and his nobles .. we can replace them with a elite of economic barons , or an elite of professional political power grabers , or an elite of militry strong men ....
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2542 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
let us rebel vs the king and his nobles .. we can replace them with a elite of economic barons , or an elite of professional political power grabers , or an elite of militry strong men .... . . . or me for I am become death, the shatterer of worlds All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
How do the individuals here who have jobs, and live as "normal" individuals cope with how meaningless most of it all is?
How do you find meaning in what you do? And why do you think we are here?
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
We're here
because we're here because we're here because we're here... Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Let me rephrase?
Why were we created by God?
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Gotta wait awhile to get that answer. But I bet it will be ....
because... AbE: Let me add this. Answering the Why question is a matter of history. It is a summation made at the end, a finally tally. Until then it is still being written, only after the fact does it graner any worth or meaning. Edited by jar, : No reason given. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Not to make it personal, or offend you at all.
But then why do you work at a grocery store, inside of the "system"? System meaning, the system designed to give man false purpose, and keep men busy, and keep men from not changing things, and keeping men from transcending what is real. Why? It would be no different if I asked anyone else why they did any other job. But you brought it up, so I asked you Phat. Your job is no less meaningful, or meaningless than any other job.
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Thank you, I didn't want a non-answer, I guess I wanted to know that you needed to contemplate the answer to such a question as much as I also do, and have many times over.
The question is the most important question ever asked. The most complex question ever asked. The world of thought opened up by this question is existentialism I guess. Edited by prophex, : holla
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Thank you, I didn't want a non-answer, I guess I wanted to know that you needed to contemplate the answer to such a question as much as I also do, and have many times over. No, don't have to contemplate it. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
I can tell you human history in a few sentences. Human history shows nothing about why we are here, it shows what humans do when they don't know why they were born. They create societies, and men live and work, and toil. They "let their gardens grow" as Voltaire said. But they do not know why they are in the world, why they were created. Human history shows the exact opposite of why we were created. We were created to seek truth, to find the answers to these questions. To transcend so to speak, as over-used as my terms are becoming, I feel they are still valid.
But History shows nothing of any worth to answering these questions. It may show a few bright stars searching, philosophers who are remembered for the conclusions that they drew, but most of it is a void, empty, filled with mindless actions, and the search for worldly gain... Nothing. What you said was simply an excuse, allowing your existance to be validated, and allowing your mind to rest.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
ikabod writes:
i think freedom is one of those words our language has made to be a oppersite to how the natural world is . like cold , we talk about cold as if its a quanity and how things get colder .. when if fact its heat engery we are talking about the world imposes a wide range of constrains apon use , what we call freedom is a label for the amount of constraint we are experiencing ... there is no measure of freedom , no absolute point of max freedom , only a scale of constraint . Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty Lao Tsu Tao Te Ching (2)(tr. Feng/English, adapted) Edited by Archer Opterix, : Correction. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Correction. Archer All species are transitional.
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Ben! Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 1161 From: Hayward, CA Joined: |
How do the individuals here who have jobs, and live as "normal" individuals cope with how meaningless most of it all is? Took me a long time to accept things as the way they are. So many things that go on are so beyond my ideals. But then I realized that my ideals were just as fleeting as the ideals of the people I couldn't agree with. And I realized that things tend to be the way they are for a reason. Things tend to find stable points, tend to oscillate between extremes. I accepted the world as it is because I believe it is the balance between many existing forces, that the world will always change and oscillate between ideals, and that being somebody who hangs onto ideals is being somebody who doesn't want to live in this world. It was hard to let go, but I am a better person with a better life because of it.
How do you find meaning in what you do? This is another one that I struggled with for a long time. I searched and searched for meaning. Never found it. But then I noticed that there's lots of people who have meaning. So I observed them. Many of the people "found" their meaning without ever asking questions, without ever searching. These people seemed to "be born" with meaning. Then there were people who went through some kind of depression or search during adolescence, who didn't seem to have meaning, then came across something (like music or science or business) that just GRABBED them and they were like "yeah! this is it!". That happened to my brother, to some friends, etc. And so I asked myself, "why not me?" I explored so many things, searching for meaning, why didn't I stumble across one that was "it"? And I think I understand now why: People learn meaning, just as they learn religion, values, right and wrong, language, how Tiger Woods learned golf. They learn meaning through their environment, through their ACTION, through their life experiences. They learn by doing, by enjoying, and by remembering. I didn't learn meaning because I always acted with hesitation, I always asked "why" before I learned to DO. Meaning is unconscious, it is free of mind, it is from the gut. I never followed through on anything so purely, my mind was involved in everything. I failed, my parents failed, my environment failed to give me meaning. But wait--there was one thing that always had meaning for me--love and understanding. Unfortunately, because I had no other bases, I always chased love and understanding without boundary, without any care in the world. To many it seemed romantic, but to do anything so purely is at the same time beautiful and very, very dangerous. I've had my fair share of bumps, bruises, and injuries because of it. And so now, I accept that. I accept that I live without such a basic meaning. My meaning has become my search for meaning. In large part, I have answered it. Now, I try to answer the question, "what is it to be human?" I study cognitive neuroscience. I like it OK. But without love, it all falls apart again. For what it's worth, that's me.
And why do you think we are here? I don't ask this as a teleological question anymore. I am interested in ideas as to how we came to exist, but I am tired of assinging purpose to us. I'd rather just see us move towards living more in harmony with the world, and I'll be very satisfied with that broad brushstroke. Sorry if I'm reapeating myself. And good luck with your questions, it's a tough place to be. Ben
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Thanks Ben I really enjoyed your response. To love, I guess is one of the only worthwhile things in this world.
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