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Author
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Topic: Evolution is NOT science: A challenge
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 305 of 591 (131405)
08-07-2004 7:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 298 by Syamsu
08-07-2004 1:29 AM
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Re: Evolution does NOT deal with the origins of life
Syamsu writes: I think your arguments are clearly in avoidance of the reality of evolutionist science. You make the narrow observation that evolution is not neccessarily insonsistent with creationism No, it is NOT consistent with creationist ideas. But it's more accurate to say that creation like you seem to be promoting is not consistent with the evidence.
and then you proceed to deny any and all reality of how evolutionary science relates to knowledge of creation in practice. There's lots of stuff known about the early earth. What is known does NOT agree with creation as a literal interpretation of Genesis. Just because the information that a biologist attains doesn't agree with your predetermined beginning doesn't mean they're wrong.
Why should I accept such an obstinate, and sabotaging attitude? Sabotaging? With all due respect, I have not tried to say that the last century and a half of scientific study was all just a gigantic conspiracy to shut down a preconcieved idea of the origin of life.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 298 by Syamsu, posted 08-07-2004 1:29 AM | | Syamsu has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 311 by Syamsu, posted 08-08-2004 1:19 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has not replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Brutal Honesty
Crashfrog writes: Well, you sent your kids to school to learn about the world, didn't you? Sorry, but you don't get to pick and choose what is true about the world. That truth includes, as far as we know, evolution. Maybe you don't like it, but that's tought shit. The world is the way it is, and that way includes evolution. If you want to teach lies to your kids, that's fine. But they won't be taught in school. Ah, the trademark brutal honesty.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 324 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2004 2:23 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 327 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2004 7:12 PM | | One_Charred_Wing has not replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 367 of 591 (134099)
08-15-2004 3:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 365 by riVeRraT
08-15-2004 2:23 PM
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Re: Faith in the unseen
People now a days start with evolution which is the conclusion, and then seek to prove it. Name one REAL scientist that does this. Just one. I know that there are a very small minority of people who embellish evolution simply because they hate religion, but the majority of these rare specimens are those 'enlightened' 13-year-olds who post on AOL chatrooms claiming to know the truth about everything. These people don't represent the scientific community at all, nor do they represent anything more than arrogant psuedo-intelligence. So anyway, let me repeat the first part again.
People now a days start with evolution which is the conclusion, and then seek to prove it. Please name one real scientist that does this.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 365 by riVeRraT, posted 08-15-2004 2:23 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 370 by riVeRraT, posted 08-15-2004 8:36 PM | | One_Charred_Wing has replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 377 of 591 (134187)
08-15-2004 10:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 370 by riVeRraT
08-15-2004 8:36 PM
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Re: Faith in the unseen
If you don't prove anything to anyone, you sure won't convince them. Just a thought. By the way, I realize you might say 'I don't need/want to prove it to anyone, I just know'. If that's the case, why are you debating the issue?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 370 by riVeRraT, posted 08-15-2004 8:36 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 381 by riVeRraT, posted 08-16-2004 7:19 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 390 of 591 (134504)
08-16-2004 10:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 381 by riVeRraT
08-16-2004 7:19 AM
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Re: Faith in the unseen
riverrat writes: but I am debating the pre-conceived notion that most people have in this forum about Christians and God. Most people in here don't have these prejudices. You simply have a pre-conceived notion that they have pre-conceived notions.
They start to argue with me, thinking that if they can prove my line of reasoning is wrong, then everything I say is wrong. Which is not the case. Not one person has said that.
I have research scientist say to me point blank: God doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is science. Same person said there is no life after death either. So one person thinks it so they all must think it! Look, there are idiots in every deparment. Your accusation is the same as those who think all Muslims are evil just because of the 9/11 attacks by a few individuals.
If you think that there are people in the world that aren't using TOE and science to run their lives, which in effect it becomes there way of life, and their religion, you are sadly mistaken. I didn't say there weren't any at all. I said that there aren't many that do this. Guess you've just had some bad run-ins.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 381 by riVeRraT, posted 08-16-2004 7:19 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 394 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2004 8:19 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has not replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 391 of 591 (134507)
08-16-2004 10:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 389 by riVeRraT
08-16-2004 8:56 PM
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In comes the cavalry
Not that Scraff is doing any less than demolishing you, but some of those points just can't be ignored.
So that when millions all come to the same conclusion doesn't that mean something. Bandwagon approach. Your using a persuasion tactic we are taught to watch out for in 6th Grade DARE makes your arguement that much less convincing. Also, millions of people believe in Hinduism. Doesn't that mean something?
Lets just ignore the fact that millions of people believe in God. Yes, and while we're at it let's ignore the fact that millions of people study evolution and still haven't found any kinks big enough to abandon the theory.
That means nothing to me. Are you saved? Don't answer, its between you and God anyway.
Have you recieved a baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Again don't answer. You ask a question, then you don't want them to answer? Not much to be learned; lots of atheists were baptised early in life by the way.
Because I am extremely sceptical of all science, makes me better than most scientists. I do not have preconcieved notions when doing science. I think that statement makes the part about you contributing to science a load of horse plop. SCIENTISTS DONT HAVE PRECONCIEVED NOTIONS OR THEY'RE NOT SCIENTISTS. Okay? Please repeat that in your own words.
[qs]2000 yearas from now, they will look back at a lot of this stuff we believe in and maybe laugh. So why should I base my life on it?
[qs]
Exact statement could be said about your religion.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 389 by riVeRraT, posted 08-16-2004 8:56 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 395 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2004 8:25 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 411 of 591 (134804)
08-17-2004 9:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 395 by riVeRraT
08-17-2004 8:25 AM
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Re: In comes the cavalry
What a joke, scraff is a rhain wanna-be, give me a break. But she'll never admit it because she hates men 
Yes it does, and it should not be ignored. Okay, then you're being open-minded. Awesomeness.
True, and it should not be ignored and still studied very hard.
Should I base my life belief's on it, I feel not. I don't know anyone else who does aside from stupid preteen yahoos.
Are you talking about water baptism? Because that is different. I'm sure there are atheists who have had that, too.
If that where only true.
Please tell me there are no idiots in the world, and if they are none of them could be scientist. I agree those idiots exist, but acredited scientists with this idiocy? Possibly, but there would be VERY few.
Not if God exists.
Science will change, thats a given, God will not change. By all means God is unchanging from omnicence. But beliefs could change.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 395 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2004 8:25 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 415 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2004 11:36 PM | | One_Charred_Wing has replied | | | Message 423 by nator, posted 08-18-2004 10:20 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has not replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 417 of 591 (134834)
08-18-2004 1:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 415 by riVeRraT
08-17-2004 11:36 PM
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Re: In comes the cavalry
riverrat writes: So if there are people who actually take it as a religion (although they would never call it that). and it is replacing God in a lot of arena's. Isn't becoming a religion in a mteer of speaking. No, in that stance it just erases religion. A chiropractor does not create back pains just because his methods seem to erase the old back pains. However, most people don't stop believing in God just because they realize evolution is almost certainly a fact.
It would seem the human race needs some sort of belief to hold on too. If it's not God then they are substituting it with something else. In steps evolution.
I'm not saying everyone feels this way, but it's happening none the less. Even so, replacing God with science was NOT Charles Darwin's intention or the same of any other good scientists'. In other words, evolution is NOT a religion. If people make it out to be, they're idiots.
Is evolution a religion? Technically no, but it takes the place of religion on a lot of levels with a lot of people. So metaphorically speaking it is. Okay, then it's not a religion. We agree, no need to argue. Just because people think it is doesn't make it so. People think the Bible is a science book. It's not. Same thing as evolution being used as religion.
What I will never understand is people who say they believe in nothing. I feel that is so impossible. I would love for someone to prove to me that it is possible to believe in nothing, no life after death, no religion, no science. But people believe in it. So, they don't need religion and evolution has nothing to do with it. End of arguement as far as I can see.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 415 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2004 11:36 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 424 by riVeRraT, posted 08-18-2004 10:33 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 441 of 591 (135139)
08-19-2004 1:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 424 by riVeRraT
08-18-2004 10:33 AM
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Re: In comes the cavalry
I will repeat my last question, how is it possible for someone to believe in evolution and God at the same time? Or should I start a new topic? Easy. You can believe in God and not a literal interpretation of Genesis. As such, you can believe that evolution is simply another one of God's wonders.
If you believe in evolution then you must think that Genesis is entirly wrong. If you mean a literal genesis then yeah, that sounds about right.
Most people would make the assumption then that the entire bible is wrong and then think that God doesn't actually exist. Absolutely untrue. Please stop making sweeping generalizations.
I don't agree with that. Religion is whatever you make it to be. Exactly, so a literal Genesis interpretation isn't necessary to believe in God.
Thats not true either. When I was taught of evolution in school (25 years ago) It made me not believe in God. The bible to me became some crusty old book that was all proven wrong. So I did not know what to belive in. Even at that time I had a hard time accepting evolution as being 100 accurate. So I used to say things like, I believe in some superior force or something, or I don't know, or whatever I felt like saying at the time. So the teaching of evolution had something to do with it, as well as the teachers who believed in it and not God. But not everyone thinks like you.
They tried to send me to CCD classes to learn about God with the catholic religion, but when the Nun was teaching us how to pray, and showed us the "Our Father", and then the hail Mary, I read the bible and couldn't find the Hail Mary. All I saw was Jesus taught us how to pray like this "Our Father..."
When I raised my hand to ask the nun "Where in the bible is hail Mary?"
I got yelled at. From that moment, I decided God was not real, and the catholic religion was full of crap. I understand this must have been hard stuff for you, but it would be irrational reasoning to think that God is not real just because a nun yelled at you for asking a good question.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 424 by riVeRraT, posted 08-18-2004 10:33 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 443 of 591 (135151)
08-19-2004 1:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 439 by nator
08-19-2004 12:24 AM
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To RiverRat
I realize this in reply to Schraf so I can use some quotes, but RiverRat needs to consider this before firing off another mindless reply.
Schrafinator writes: have a sinking suspicion that you have a very difficult time following what is being said to you over several replies. Both Crash and I have had to repeat your own words back to you because you tend to seem to "forget" or become confused about what you have said a couple of posts ago. I noticed the same thing. However, he seems to be even better at forgetting what we said, too. Well, he understands our general points, but tends to leave out the 'minor details'.
But this isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the ToE as a scientific theory. As Biologists use it. You know, the same way Physicists use Relativity Theory. We are not talking about how some random person might think about it. Please make note of this, RiverRat. We honestly DO NOT CARE what a few of your co workers think in this particular case.
This is not how scientists use the Theory, and this thread is meant to discuss if the way SCIENTISTS use the ToE is religious or not. To schraf and Crash, I'm thinking if he doesn't get this one right in a post or two we really need to stop wasting our time before this thread gets broken or something.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 439 by nator, posted 08-19-2004 12:24 AM | | nator has not replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 466 of 591 (135501)
08-20-2004 12:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 437 by nator
08-18-2004 11:30 AM
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schraf writes: No, (I hate)males like Born2Preach. Shwah?! What did I ever do?! 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 437 by nator, posted 08-18-2004 11:30 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 473 by nator, posted 08-20-2004 10:17 AM | | One_Charred_Wing has replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 490 of 591 (135880)
08-21-2004 2:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 473 by nator
08-20-2004 10:17 AM
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I'm a man-hating ugly lesbian, remember? Contracycle said that, not me! I never said you were lesbian. And most lesbians I've seen are extremely hot. And I never said you were ugly. I just think you look goofy riding that horse in your avatar(assuming that's you). Just because I like taunting feminists doesn't mean I'm a shovenistic barbarian.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 473 by nator, posted 08-20-2004 10:17 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 517 by nator, posted 08-23-2004 8:37 PM | | One_Charred_Wing has not replied |
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6186 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 590 of 591 (137288)
08-27-2004 2:35 AM
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Admins, please close this topic
You guys are STILL going at it?! Admins, please shut this thing down! It's been off-topic for the last 200 posts or so! I didn't even know it was still going!! This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 08-27-2004 01:35 AM
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