YE-creation: science , pompous dogma or faith message?

We got side tracked in the quantized redshift thread recently. Here we can talk about what young earth creation really is.For me it is a 'faith message' which is well backed by a lot of scientific facts. I only have ever wanted to present it in that way. Of course sometimes it comes of sounding like a pompous dogma. That is certainly not my intention. On occasions some of us will state some facts with an exclamtion mark becasue, for example, we can't believe that the other camp frequently wont even acknowledge it as suggestive of our viewpoint. But I do not claim that evoltuionists whether atheists, agnostics or OECs are idiots or anything like that.My message is simply that if we go reason only, my experience and my testimony, and my 'proclamation' is that you will go wrong becasue we believe that reason is far less important than conscience, obedience and faith. That is simply my testimnoy and you can do with it what you want. I will not force it on anyone. And I do not claim that you have to be a YEC to be a Christian. I have never claimed that.I marvel at Scripture becasue this fundamental issue is pointed out with such clarity in the very first pages. There were two trees in the garden - that had to be approached from the right attitude: knowledge and life. We proclaim that knowledge from the basis of a life-link with 'the true vine' is the way to go. Anything else is ultimately futility. That is our message. That is all it is.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-15-2002]

I hope I don't offfend too many Christians here but surely the church has fallen and has been in the process of getting up since Martin Luther et al! It has a bit to go. Does anyone here really think the church we have now is the church that Christ prayed for in Gethsemene?The last 2000 years is analogous to the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness. Just as the Israelites were only a few days journey from the promised land after the Exodus they grumbled, fell into disbelief and mixed the world into what God was telling them. Just as the Israelites eventually made it so will the church - through much humbling.The walk across the Jordan was after 40 years of walking around in circles. It was a sudden, 'let's get up and do it' because it was God's time and the sins of the past had been processed through. It will be/is no different this time.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-18-2002]

And on the flood let's just remember that the writer ofHebrews makes no distinciton between the reality of what Noah, Abraham or Moses did:Hebrews 11
6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.And the apostle Peter (2Pet 3) tells us precisely in what way mankind would come to doubt the reality of creation, the flood and the 2nd coming - it will be becasue they cry 'everything has continued from the beginning as it always has'! Nope - a global flood can ruin your whole day.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-18-2002]

JoeWe could almost agree if you didn't ignore the part where I say that our claim has much scientific backing regardless of the fact that it originates as a faith message. A slight shift in perspective and your millions of years look like a global flood. That's how subtle it was in the garden too.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-18-2002]