YE-creation: science , pompous dogma or faith message?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
[B]We got side tracked in the quantized redshift thread recently. Here we can talk about what young earth creation really is.For me it is a 'faith message' which is well backed by a lot of scientific facts. I only have ever wanted to present it in that way. Of course sometimes it comes of sounding like a pompous dogma. That is certainly not my intention. On occasions some of us will state some facts with an exclamtion mark becasue, for example, we can't believe that the other camp frequently wont even acknowledge it as suggestive of our viewpoint. But I do not claim that evoltuionists whether atheists, agnostics or OECs are idiots or anything like that.My message is simply that if we go reason only, my experience and my testimony, and my 'proclamation' is that you will go wrong becasue we believe that reason is far less important than conscience, obedience and faith. That is simply my testimnoy and you can do with it what you want. I will not force it on anyone. And I do not claim that you have to be a YEC to be a Christian. I have never claimed that.I marvel at Scripture becasue this fundamental issue is pointed out with such clarity in the very first pages. There were two trees in the garden - that had to be approached from the right attitude: knowledge and life. We proclaim that knowledge from the basis of a life-link with 'the true vine' is the way to go. Anything else is ultimately futility. That is our message. That is all it is. [/QUOTE]JM: Nicely said and precisely why your faith is not scientific. I contrast views like yours with other Christians. Rather than force science to fit the bible, they accept that the bible is a book about salvation. They also accept that modern scientific findings (such as an old earth with no global flood) are in perfect harmony with their faith. Forgive my false dichotomy for a moment (as there are many shades to this statement), but it seems that ye-creationists are constantly forcing science to fit a non-scientific text whilst other Christian's accept scientific discovery as independent verfication of God's creative power. Ye-creationists limit their God by tying him down to what they read in the bible. Other Christians acknowledge that God is all powerful and that evolution on an old earth is no threat to their God or salvation. You may not be as radical as Ken Ham (who insists that ye-creationism is a matter of salvation), but your efforts here to awkwardly force fit science into the bible belies your rigid faith. Why not worship the God of the bible rather than worship the bible as God?CheersJoe Meert[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 08-16-2002]

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Originally posted by halcyonwaters:
--Why not worship the God of the bible rather than worship the bible as God?--

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Good question.

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John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

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John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us..."

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David

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And the word says (Numbers 31:16-17):Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.Aww, what a pretty picture of god. Nowhere does John's text indicate that one should worship the bible as God. You are interpreting it that way.CheersJoe Meert[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 08-16-2002]

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Originally posted by gene90:
Most of 'The Word' was written a long time after 'the beginning', therefore your use of this passage to support an inerrant Bible is
in error.

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John's account of 'in the beginning' contrasts with GenesisGen 1 does not mention the 'word' being there in the beginning.CheersJoe Meert

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
[B]JoeWe could almost agree if you didn't ignore the part where I say that our claim has much scientific backing regardless of the fact that it originates as a faith message. A slight shift in perspective and your millions of years look like a global flood. That's how subtle it was in the garden too. [/QUOTE]JM: No, not a slight shift. It requires a complete abandonment of science, observation and logic and a requires a reliance on supernatural dogmatic superstition.CheersJoe Meert