Random God Rant

It's a circle because it is disk shaped. They belived the firmament was like a dome set atop the world.Something like this:

"Pillars" is a figure of speech used here and there, a single word, a single phrase in the middle of another context. The Garden of Eden is described in some detail, and the Flood in even more detail. There is nothing metaphorical about the descriptions.

You don't say where this drawing came from, who supposedly made it, and it doesn't look like a primitive drawing. The trees especially look like a modern architect's drawing, not a primitive artist's. And again, why should anybody's representation prove anything about the Bible?

I'm not claiming it's primaive. I was explaining why the called the world a circle. It's like a disc.

If I can show you in the Bible where pillars is used litteraly as pillars supporting the earth, will you then admit that the bible is wrong about how the universe is structured? Yes, and both of them speak of the firmament, the pillars, and the waters above the waters. The flood story even explicitly states that the windows of heaven were opend... TO LET THE RAIN THROUGH!

So they didn't draw those pictures, this is just somebody's idea of what they supposedly thought? That's even worse than I had any idea. You want somebody's literal-minded rendition of what they THOUGHT the ancients thought to be used against the Bible?How do you know they thought of it like a disc, and what would it mean if they did? So they didn't understand what God was saying. Why is that hard to believe? There are many things in the Bible that the very prophets who said them straight from the mouth of God didn't understand themselves.

Ah! So here we have it folks! If I prove they thought it was a disc, it dosn't matter.Why dosn't it matter? Because it is obvioulsy wrong! The forgone conclusion is that the bible can't be wrong, therefore the interpretation must be wrong.So let me get this straight faith, the more we disprove about the litteral bible, the more it suddenly turns into metaphore/symbol? Is this a spontaneus conversion?When we disprove the whole thing, will it all be symbolic?

I would just like to state that Faith's logic allowes for any religion to stake a claim on reality.I can just as easely say:1) Forgone Conclusion: Zeus exists and the Greek myths are real
2) Contradictory Evidence: Fire is caused by the adgitation of molecules, how could a man steal it from the gods?
3) Rebuttle: That story is symbolic.
4) Repeat rebuttle as many times you are presented with Contadictory Evidence.This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-23-2005 11:14 AM

Look, just because I couldn't find the term "pillars" doesn't mean I don't know what the Bible says, and it does not say anything to suggest a literal idea of pillars supporting the earth. Such expressions are poetic. AND AGAIN, even if the people themselves had some such literal idea (which you have not proved), so what? It is not in the text in such a literal way, and it is not a science text anyway. Yeah, I've read it. What I said applies. The whole description of the Flood makes it real. The use of figures of speech in the course of the description is just that, figures of speech. It does not read as anything but metaphorical windows -- and pillars (though I didn't find this word in the KJV concordance for some reason but maybe I didn't look carefully enough) and waters. But it does suggest that there is a sense in which there were in fact "waters above the firmament" that no longer exist, even if that expression is also metaphorical.

were the Jews a different people from the Babylonians ? If yes, at which point did they become a distinct people ?Also, did the creation myths in the OT originate from Abraham or were they a revelation from God to the people at the time of writing?

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Well I believe that the Greek myths had some basis in reality. I believe the "gods" did communicate with people at one time (still do but not as overtly). The stories woven around them are no doubt fictional however. But the Greek myths are not written with the realistic detail which sets the Bible apart from works of imagination anyway, and nobody has ever tried to make such a case for them that I know of so your analogy is NOT apt.This message has been edited by Faith, 09-23-2005 11:14 AM

Today they don't, but you could get executed for herasy if you denied them back in the day.Further, your holy book talks about a world wide flood that never happend, a talking snake, a talking ass, a magic apple.It talks about a dying and rising godman (Herculese, Mithras, Isis). It says all sorts of far out nonsense and somehow it's more credible than greek myths?

The Biblical genealogies show how all distinct peoples came from the son of such-and-such a family. The tribe of the Edomites came from Esau; the Moabites and the Ammonites descended from Lot etc. How does one tell when they become a distinct people? When they reach a certain number? When they have their own identifiable piece of geography, a city that goes by their name perhaps? In the case of the Hebrews, when they became numerous in Egypt perhaps? Why does it matter? Abraham was essentially a Chaldean, so his descendants had a right to whatever knowledge the Chaldeans also shared. The Bible doesn't say. But it seems a reasonable conjecture that BOTH were involved. {Edit: And Moses' training in the court of Pharoah would have educated him in all the lore of the peoples of the day too}This message has been edited by Faith, 09-23-2005 11:33 AM

Flood happened. Snake talked. Ass talked. Apple was not magic. I see you like your misrepresentation SO much, however, you will repeat it no matter what I say. Well, have fun. You've bought the whole package I see. Read C.S. Lewis on the meaning of the similarities with other religions. How the Reality of Jesus Christ overtook all the guesses and fictions of other religions.

No proof. Bullshit. No brain for it, no vocal chords, no physical capacity for it. Yes, much of the bible sounds like it's talked right out of someones ass. What would you call a fruit capable of imparting devine knowldge to non-devine beings? No missrepresentation involved, sorry, your holy book is dumb. AH C.S. Lewis, the would be apologist Tolkein-come lately. "That pesky devil was up to his tricks putting down false messiahs!"Ain't that convenient?Maybe the devil confused the babylonians too? Maybe hes the one hiding all the flood evidence?Almost worse than his idiotic trilema (or whatever it's called). Actually, it was mostly brute force and political tinkering. Lots of blood was shed to push fourth christianity, most of it was not christian.This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-23-2005 11:36 AM