Were The Prophets/Messiahs Jesus and Mohammed Inspired By The Same God?

ok, fine. i'll play. here's the first place the word "jehovah" appears in the english kjv.

quote:

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Exd 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

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and here's the list of other versions, same source as before.

quote:

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NLT - Exd 6:3 - I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty, though I did not reveal my name, the LORD, to them.
Footnote:
a) Hebrew El Shaddai.
b) Hebrew Yahweh; traditionally rendered Jehovah.
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

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NKJV - Exd 6:3 - I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Lord I was not known to them.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

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NASB - Exd 6:3 - and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but {by} My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

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RSV - Exd 6:3 - I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

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Webster - Exd 6:3 - And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

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Young - Exd 6:3 - and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; as to My name Jehovah, I have not been known to them;
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

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Darby - Exd 6:3 - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as the Almighty God; but by my name Jehovah I was not made known to them.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

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ASV - Exd 6:3 - and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; but by my name Jehovah I was not known to them.
American Standard Version 1901 Info

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HNV - Exd 6:3 - and I appeared to Avraham, to Yitzchak, and to Ya`akov, as El Shaddai; but by my name the LORD I was not known to them.
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info

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Vulgate - Exd 6:3 - qui apparui Abraham Isaac et Iacob in Deo omnipotente et nomen meum Adonai non indicavi eis
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

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i'm sorry, this "most translations" thing doesn't cut it. we're seeing it in a FEW late 19th century translations, and the kjv. those are not MODERN english translations. "jehovah" is meaningless gobledygook in hebrew. i'm sorry, but it is. it's not a real word. yahweh, on the other, IS a real word. it means "he that is." and the question was, if i recall, does the tendency to translate yahweh as "LORD" have anything do with the word "adonay."and yes, it does. it has to do with that superstition. the aditions of the vowel points for adonay has to do with that superstition. it is utterly incorrect to read them as part of the real hebrew word. and i've pointed out, it doesn't even make sense in hebrew spelling. there is no proper use of "jehovah." it is not a real word, and it is not god's name. it's a made up acronym.

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אָרַח

yes, it is. i was just trying to walk buzsaw through logic one step at a time. the hebrews have a practice of not speaking the name of god, and so they substitute the word adonay (among other things) for his name. this particular practice leads to modern english translations redering yhvh as "LORD" in small caps, as well as the masoretes adding the vowel points of the adonay to yhvh.that, in turn led to the yahweh/jehovah confussion. but people just don't like hearing their traditions are wrong. it happens sometimes. word order in biblical hebrew isn't exactly like english, and sometimes things get switched around. yhvh, yes. it was probably said "yahweh" but certainly not "jehovah" which is an anglicized german transliteration of the acronym that appears in the masoretic text. it is NOT god's name.

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אָרַח

compare it to "adam" and "Adam" in the hebrew of genesis. the use of names as titles and vice versa is quite common in that area. do you not see how a title can become a name?look at yahweh. "he that is" is a title, isn't it? and "elohym" was originally a NAME of a specific semitic god, el. so the name ≠ title thing is really bogus. they interchange over time.

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אָרַח

I would add that the declaration is in Arabic and the translation Buz gives is far from the only one.Here's another:"There is no god but Allah. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"So far as I am aware the point of the declaration is that it is a declaration of monotheism and acceptance of Huhammad as a Prophet.

Understood.Thanks

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

Muhammed's family was polytheistic until Muhammed's alleged vision, as I understand, one of the poly-gods being the moon god, Allah, the more supreme of the gods. After his vision, he then set out to and succeeded in establishing Allah as the supreme god and by force, eliminating all other of the 200 plus gods which were worshipped at Mecca. That he made Allah the supreme god does not mean that this god and Jehovah of the Bible are one and the same, even though Muhammed incorporated some aspects of his vague knowledge of Biblical theology into Islam.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

The Quran explcitly states that Allah is the God of Abraham and Moses and Jesus.You need to deal with that fact - and produce actual evidence rather than opinions.Page Not Found
(note that this has 3 interleaved translations, each surah is given three times)2:62 See also the description of the Exodus starting in 2:472:87 2.136

I'm not arguing that a title cannot become a name. In Islam it does just that, but not with Yahweh, as I have shown. 1. "He that is" is not a title. It is the meaning of the proper name, Jehovah. Jehovah is not a "he that is." He is an elohim/a god. "He that is is what his name means/depicts.2. Adam is a proper name, period. It is neither a title of Adam, the first man nor the meaning of his name.3. Please document where elohim was ever the proper name of a god.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

is it not a stretch that a muslims could be using a title like a name, like hebrews do? no. it is the meaning of yahweh, which is a conjugate of the present tense of hayah. jehovah IS NOT A WORD. perhaps you should look this one up. you see, adam also means "man" as in ha-adam for "the man." but it's also used to mean "mankind" as in genesis 1:26 or so, when god creates adam in his own image. el was a god in just about every semetic and mesopatamian culture. "elohym" appears to the hebrew version of the ugaritic name of el's court.

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אָרַח

Even if they were, what possible difference could it make to this topic? Yahweh is the name God gave for Himself, title, name, it doesn't matter, it does not mean merely "god" and it does NOT mean what "Allah" means, title, name, whatever SO WHAT? Even if Allah WERE derived from "el" or "elohim" that is NOT the derivation of Jehovah/Yahweh/YHWH/Hebrew tetragrammaton.Sheesh.

Just to throw another spanner in the works. Salibi on mistranslations (I can`t do the accents so they are missing) :”The traditional reading of Genesis 14:22 has long assumed that Abram the Hebrew, in an oath, identifies his own god, Yahweh, with the El ”Elyon of the king of ”Salem’. The Hebrew text of Abram`s oath, (hrmty ydy ”l yhwh ”l ”lywn), has normally been taken to mean ” I have sworn (literally, raised my hand) to Yahweh El ”Elyon (in RSV, ”to the Lord God Most High). Actually, the Hebrew yhwh here (as in examples cited earlier) must be read as the archaic imperfect of the verb hyh-”be’. Hence, the oath must be read as: ”I have sworn, El ”Elyon being a god’ or ”I have sworn (as) El ”Elyon is a god (”l yhwh ”l ”lywn)’, the recognition of the divinity of El ”Elyon being presented as testimony to the truth of the oath. In Psalm 7:18, however, ”Elyon is unequivocally mentioned as a name of Yahweh (sm yhwh ”lywn. ”the name of Yahweh is ”Elyon’). Yahweh is also called ”Elyon in Psalm 47:3. Moreover, ”Elyon rather than Yahweh is cited as the name of the God of Israel in more than twenty other passages of Biblical text where it is commonly rendered in translation as ”Most High’. (The Bible came from Arabia - p147)

you know how many times i've heard christians talk about the many names of god, only to list a million titles, descriptions, and adjectives? mulsims hold that allah is the same as the god of abraham, and of jesus. want some better proof? find an arabic translation of the jewish bible -- they do exist. and "elohym" becomes "allah."

quote:

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Although the usage of the word Allh is traditionally attributed to Muslims, it is not exclusive to Islam; Arab Christians and various Arabic-speaking Jews (including the Teimanim, several Mizrai communities and some Sephardim) also use it to refer to the monotheist deity. Arabic translations of the Bible also employ it, as do Roman Catholics in Malta (who pronounce it as "Alla"), Christians in Indonesia, who say "Allah Bapa" (Allah the Father) and Christians in the Middle East who use the Aramaic "Allha".

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Allah - Wikipedia

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what's your point, fiat? it's just different name, and a different tradition. like judaism doesn't call god by a bunch of different names/titles.you can sit around all day and say "that's not my god!" but they believe it is, just like you believe your god to be the god of the jews.

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אָרַח

The master of irrelevance, Arach. Have a merry Christmas.

1. Prior to Islam, the family and ancestorage of Muhammed and the other tribes of the region were polyistic pagans, worshipping pagan gods, over 200 of them at Mecca. The chief god of Muhammed's family and ancestors was the moon god, Allah.2. What Muhammed has done as revealed in your link from the Quran is to replace/substitute the Biblical god, Jehovah with the chief god of his ancestorage, Allah by associating his family chief god with Biblical patriarchs as being also their god and one and the same as Jehovah. That, however does not make their formerly pagan god, Allah one and the same with Jehovah.3. I finished reading the long link taken from the Quran and see in it a progressive action, beginning with the association of Muhammed's god Allah with the Biblical patriarchs, mainly Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to which he has added Ishmael. This association progressed to the promise of a messenger to come, {Muhammed} who would bring new revelation, requiring the adherance to Islam and the practices and doctrines set forth in order to be of the true faithNote the following Quranic quotes from your link which follow the quotes associating Allah with the patriarchs: The Bible has become Muhammed's model which he used to transform his pagan god into the supreme monotheos being so as to be deemed suitable to emerge into becoming the supreme god of all the world. Muhammed declared that Islam was to replace all other gods (and that includes the Judeo-Christian god, Jehovah}, bar none, worldwide. In order to accomplish this he must needs merge the Biblical and the Quranic gods as one god who was to be called by the name of his god. Thus, there no recognition of the proper name, Jehovah by Muhammed, nor has there been since by his devouts and adherants. Preach Jehovah in Islamic theocracies and you die or are oppressed. Preach Allah and you live and get along.....simple as that.AbE: The first thing Muhammed did after his aleged vision was to begin purging and clearing out all 200 plus gods from Mecca and enforce by the sword the god Allah to become the Islamic monotheist god. From there he and primarily his successors began moving out to conquer the world by the sword for his god Allah and his religion Islam. The ever progressive march as over 30 nations under control and his little religion is now the fastest growing religion on the planet, including the US of A.THERE'S NOT ROOM ON THIS PLANET FOR TWO MONOTHEOS GODS, SAY BOTH PROPHETS JESUS AND MUHAMMED. THE DECISIVE LAST WAR, ARMAGEDDON WILL DETERMINE WHICH ONE IS THE TRUE GOD AND WHICH PROPHET/MESSIAH IS THE TRUE PROPHET/MESSIAH. JERUSALEM, THE PLACE OF THE SACRED TEMPLE OF JEHOVAH AND THE PLACE OF THE ISLAMIC DOME OF THE ROCK IS WHERE THAT DECISIVE BATTLE WILL END. THUS THE FOCUS OF THE WHOLE WORLD IN THE REGION!This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-23-2005 10:04 PM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Though debate on names is one aspect of this thread topic, I hope to soon move along in other questions stated in the OP. How about some input on item one which, after all, deals more directly with the thread title?

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw