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Author Topic:   IS THE REDEEMER YAHWEH's Holy Spirit become flesh?
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 1 of 15 (312469)
05-16-2006 1:54 PM


Some here believe the assumption[belief] that the Most High would supposedly be a person, but the nature of a person's self-existence is that of a false "I am" a type of "I am" which endures just for a moment, a type that says "I am" and immediately after that goes to the grave and turns to dust, while the nature of YAHWEH is that of an ETERNAL and UNCHANGEABLE I AM.
The trinity belief says that Yahweh would be, SPIRITUALLY just a person, one of the three subdivisions of the G-dhead; an hypostasis. "Three persons and one G-d. "three persons are one and the same.
According to the truth brought from the first letter of John, there are three who bear witness in heaven: 1. YAHWEH, 2.YAHWEH's Word, and 3.YAHWEH's Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
And there are three who bear witness on earth: 1. YAHWEH's Spirit, 2. the water and 3. the blood.
The apostle is not referring to persons but elements; for the existence of the water alone is not enough to bear witness as well as the existence of the blood alone is not enough to bear witness,
For it is attested that the Word become flesh came by water and blood, not only by water, but by water and blood.
Actually YAHWEH's Holy Spirit can be at different places at the same time, and this SIMULTANEITY does not mean "divisibility", but it means that there is no separation nor subdivision between YAHWEH and His Holy Spirit, for YAHWEH is Spirit.
Two questions to the Trinitarians here:
1. When do you see the Word being a person separated from the Spirit that is Holy?
2. From where do you take the thought of YAHWEH being a person separated from his Holy Spirit?
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Message 2 of 15 (312470)
05-16-2006 1:57 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 3 of 15 (313100)
05-18-2006 5:20 AM


The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
Hi kiddos,
English is not my first language, but Hebrew and then Portuguese. Besides, as a Non-fiction writer, I write in a Scriptural style, and therefore, if you read and don't understand it, please let me know which part that I wrote is not understandable.
-
Had Yahweh and the apostles referred to Yahshua[Jeh'shua] by the term "chosen messiah"?
In the beginning of the centuries the word HaMelech [VuMELL'Q] held the meaning of "Anointed", which spiritually means "one upon which a Spiritual overflowing unction was poured from above to down", and has nothing to do with the word "king" which spiritually means "chosen from down"; or "recognized as a sovereign from down". YAHSHUA is the Anointed of the anointed ones, and not the king of the “kings”.
The Scripture of the Truth does not use the word "chosen" while referring to YAHSHUA as the ANOINTED and Holy One, but only uses the word chosen when YAHSHUA is referred to as "a servant": Behold my servant whom I have chosen.
Also it was already proven that, in the Scriptures as originally written, the word HaMelech [VuMELL'Q], spiritually, has nothing to do with the word messiah;
For the word messiah is the favorite word of the false prophet[theology], whenever the sons of the sorcerer "holy" Mother prostitute-church and of the abomination, and of the beliefs of the earth use the word "messiah" rather than "anointed", for the term "messiah" leaves the impression that Yahshua was "chosen" or "selected" by Yahweh just as Saul and David were chosen: from the midst of men. [like he was just born as a separate person].
Blind leads the blind and one lie leads to another. If YAHSHUA was actually "chosen" or "selected", then the understanding of the Truth is overcome by the assumption[belief] which is called "Father and Redeemer as two separate persons SPIRITUALLY", that is according to the doctrines[beasts] of the earth, and is detestable and less than nothing.
If YAHSHUA and YAHWEH were two separate persons SPIRITUALLY, then, even when YAHSHUA was speaking to YAHWEH, He would not have stressed the "Being One Property" so much and EXCESSIVELY as in the text of eternal words where this Truth was brought up: "I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one".
Of course the obscure purpose of the trinity’s scarlet[obscure] beast[doctrine] is to make you see Him as a separate person SPIRITUALLY, and then buy its false prophet[theology].
You could argue, saying “wouldn't that be physically, too? - No. The trinity’s beast[doctrine] has the obscure purpose of making you see Him as a separate person SPIRITUALLY, because even the false prophet[theology] knows that a man or a human being without SPIRIT is just flesh, and flesh alone profits NOTHING. The Spirit is that quickens the flesh. Spirit is the living electricity that quickens the nervous system.
-
And if you bring up Who YAHSHUA is, inwardly, you will figure out that there was no spirit of man abiding in Him, neither He was a spirit of man, not even He was a man INWARDLY, but YAHWEH’s Spirit become flesh and in the flesh.
YAHWEH does not say "You are my chosen-messiah, today I have chosen you".
It is attested in the beginning of the book called Hebrews,
YAHWEH's eternal words: "You are My Begotten-SON, Today I have begotten you",
which means more than "You are Property of My own", for YAHWEH’s eternal words mean "You are SPIRIT of MY SPIRIT, Today I have begotten you".
.
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : to capitalize the word He
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : to substitute the term "not even" for the word "neither"

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by ramoss, posted 05-18-2006 7:48 AM goldenlightArchangel has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 4 of 15 (313116)
05-18-2006 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel
05-18-2006 5:20 AM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
Well, I will point out that the same terminology in the Hebrews is used in The Psalms of David 2:7. David was the 'begotton' son of god , according to that pslam.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-18-2006 5:20 AM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-18-2006 9:16 AM ramoss has replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 5 of 15 (313139)
05-18-2006 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by ramoss
05-18-2006 7:48 AM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
Hi Ramoss,
I totally agree on this one:
It is the eternal words in the Hebrews who first attested that those words in the Psalms are a prophecy about the Only Begotten-SON.
.
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : Insert vertical dots

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ramoss, posted 05-18-2006 7:48 AM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by ramoss, posted 05-18-2006 9:52 AM goldenlightArchangel has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 6 of 15 (313150)
05-18-2006 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by goldenlightArchangel
05-18-2006 9:16 AM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
No, I disagree. It means that the term 'the son of god' and 'begotton son of god' is very different between the ancient hebrews and the early Christians. Since 'Begotton son of god' refers to David, it is not a prophecy, but rather a term that shows that David was exulted by god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-18-2006 9:16 AM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-18-2006 10:23 AM ramoss has replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 7 of 15 (313164)
05-18-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by ramoss
05-18-2006 9:52 AM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
YAHWEH's eternal words: "You are My Begotten-SON, Today I have begotten you",
Ramoss,
In case you forgot about the word "Today", How do you explain the word "Today" in the above sentence? - Are you sure David was begotten on the same day the sentence was first spoken?
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ramoss, posted 05-18-2006 9:52 AM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Christian7, posted 05-18-2006 1:00 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied
 Message 13 by ramoss, posted 05-20-2006 4:33 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 8 of 15 (313200)
05-18-2006 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by goldenlightArchangel
05-18-2006 10:23 AM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
Stop calling God YAHWEH!!!!
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic notation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-18-2006 10:23 AM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
jessie
Member (Idle past 5079 days)
Posts: 74
Joined: 03-08-2004


Message 9 of 15 (313315)
05-18-2006 7:29 PM


Hi CrazyDiamond,
According to the truth brought from the first letter of John, there are three who bear witness in heaven: 1. YAHWEH, 2.YAHWEH's Word, and 3.YAHWEH's Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Yes, and the Scriptures do not say that Yahweh is a person.
Yahweh is not man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should be changed.
**
Also,there is this passage from Revelations which blows a huge hole in the doctrine of the Trinity:
Before the throne,seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of Yahweh.
**
And then there is the assumption that the Holy Spirit is a person because the word 'he' is used when referring to it.
The Holy Spirit comes to abide in the flesh.
I don't know about you but I have never heard of a person being able to abide[live] inside of another person's body, SPIRIT yes...person NO.
Great post.
Take care kiddo!!
Jessie

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 10 of 15 (313339)
05-18-2006 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel
05-16-2006 1:54 PM


I don't know exactly what you are trying to say but I think you may misunderstand the word "person." It doesn't mean some kind of physical entity, it means simply personality -- thoughts, feelings, etc. Pure spirit, everywhere at once.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-16-2006 1:54 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-19-2006 4:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 11 of 15 (313429)
05-19-2006 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
05-18-2006 8:09 PM


The Nature of YAHWEH, Spiritually, is not that of a "person"
Faith writes:
..Pure spirit, everywhere at once.
Hi Faith,
The spirit of a "person", Spiritually, is not Pure. If it were so, then all persons who call upon the word "Iesus" [(that is a "version" of the actual name by which He was called by the apostles)], and follow the beliefs of the earth, and are applying a belief to the Scriptures rather than the understanding of the Truth only, could immediately enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Even the LAMB said to you that there is only one GOOD, Who is YAHWEH that glitters on heaven.
View the distinction between the Spirit of YAHWEH and the spirit of a "person",
YAHWEH says I AM Who I AM [other translation; I AM that I AM]
and YAHWEH actually IS Who He/She is and can say that He/She is because YAHWEH is Spirit and remains Forever and ETERNALLY.
Definition of "person"; Spiritually: A person is, inwardly, just a spirit of man or woman. Example: he/she might say to him/hersef "I am that I am", but then he/she dies, and you cannot say that he/she is still being something any longer.
.
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : definition of person spiritually.

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 Message 10 by Faith, posted 05-18-2006 8:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 12 of 15 (313816)
05-20-2006 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jessie
05-18-2006 7:29 PM


The Reason Why YAHSHUA[JEH'SHUA] Is NOT a Person
.
Hi SALVADEJAH,
The Trinity's imposed doctrine has kept the habit of "believing(assuming)" that YAHSHUA[JEH'SHUA] would supposedly be a person INWARDLY.
The fact that YAHSHUA did not represent himself, is the Scriptural proof which attests once and for all that He is not a person.
If He was a person Spiritually, or INWARDLY, then He would have represented himself Spiritually, or referred to Himself whenever the words I AM [YAHWEH] were pronounced by Him.
YAHSHUA[JEH'SHUA] did not pre-exist as a person.
YAHSHUA is not a person, neither He is a separate Spirit, not even He is a Spirit who would stand side by side with YAHWEH.
And the reason He is not person, nor did He Spiritually represent the "I" of Himself, is because He is an Extension of the MOST HIGH.
The vine supports the branches, feeds life into them, and just as a vine bears feeble branches, and holds them more than the branches hold the vine;
Also the Vine[I AM/YAHWEH] bears its own Extension through which all the feeble branches are supported;
YAHSHUA is, inwardly, the Extension of the vine itself, YAHSHUA is the Middle[Mediation] and it means that YAHSHUA is the Total Extension which supports the branches.
YAHSHUA is ETERNAL as an Extension of the Spirit of YAHWEH.
YAHSHUA is INWARDLY the totality of the Seven Spirits of YAHWEH.
And YAHSHUA did not refer to himself as a person,
but as an EXTENSION of the Begetter[YAHWEH].
The same eternal words in the Scripture of the Truth attest that whenever YAHSHUA spoke the words "I AM"[YAHWEH in the Ancient Hebrew],
He did not refer to Himself as YAHWEH, but as YAHWEH abiding in Him.
Whenever He spoke "I AM the vine", actually He said: "YAHWEH is the vine".
If you bring up the "part of the verb to be" which the Hebrew people did not pronounce when one is referring to him/herself, then you will figure out that the pronunciation of the same verb from a perfect Ancient Hebrew Language is the basis of the pronunciation of the Eternal Name YAHWEH [I AM] - [(JEHAVEH in the Latin Languages)]
What YAHSHUA Has ACTUALLY SAID:
I AM the door - YAHWEH is the door
I AM the good shepherd - YAHWEH is the good shepherd
I AM the way - YAHWEH is the way
I AM the life - YAHWEH is the life
I AM the resurrection - YAHWEH is the ressurrection
I AM the truth - YAHWEH is the truth
I AM the living bread - YAHWEH is the living bread which came down from heaven
-
Definition of "person"; Spiritually: A person is, inwardly, just a spirit of man or woman. Example: he/she might say to him/hersef "I am that I am", but then he/she dies, and you cannot say that he/she is still being something any longer.
-
THE FINAL CONCLUSION - Who He IS INWARDLY
-
1. Phrimmi(Initial) - "I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one" - YAHSHUA was in Yahweh and came out of Yahweh. "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have retained them, and have known surely that I came out from thee. - The Scripture of the Truth does not say that Yahshua remains side by side with Yahweh, but remains as an extension of YAHWEH's Spirit. - YAHSHUA ascended to be again with YAHWEH, not as a separate person but to remain in YAHWEH, just as the Extension of the vine is an extension of the vine itself. Eternal words: I AM the vine: you are the branches. he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.
The Message’s Transcription: "I AM the Vine, you are the branches. When you're joined with me and I with you, the relation intimate and organic, the harvest is sure to be abundant. Separated, you can't produce a thing. Anyone who separates from me is deadwood, gathered up and thrown on the bonfire. But if you make yourselves at home with me and my words are at home in you, you can be sure that whatever you ask will be listened to and acted upon. This is how my Begetter shows who He is; when you produce grapes, when you mature as my sticks[poles/branches/apostles].
-
2. Sequence - The Name YAHSHUA means "I AM is the Salvation", which Spiritually means "I AM as a Mediation": In the form of Mediation, I AM is in YAHSHUA, as YAHSHUA is eternally in I AM[YAHWEH]. YAHSHUA is Eternally an extension of Yahweh's Spirit. And as the Extension is the part of the vine which supports the branches, also YAHSHUA stands at the right hand of the Power, as an extension of that same Power, and not as a separate person.
And as the Salvation/Mediation is being done through an extension of the same Yahweh's Spirit, rather than through a separate person, YAHSHUA's mediation on behalf of the redeemed ones is perfect in the FULLNESS and COMPLETENESS of YAHWEH's will.
To be an extension of that same YAHWEH's Spirit does not mean to be side by side.
To be an extension of that same YAHWEH's Spirit means: that the LAMB did not and does not have a spirit of himself abiding in his flesh/human body, but the COMPLETENESS: the TOTALITY of the Seven Spirits of YAHWEH, as attested by the eternal words in the last book of the Scripture of the Truth.
-
3. Termination - Yahshua exists Eternally, according to the permanence of the times that remain eternally with the Eternal and Celestial, but not according to the continuous time of this world. For this world does not exist eternally, but exists only in the continuous sequence of the times that terminate. That is why the statement which says that "Yahshua did not exist until the moment that He was brought into existence through the fertilization of Miriam's egg" is only applicable if considered that the moment that his flesh is "brought into existence" is the exact moment that, as an extension of YAHWEH's Spirit, YAHSHUA comes from a different existence that is not comparable to the temporary existence of this world. The time of the times for a dividing time[/i] which is one of the seven parts a book Written On The Outside And Sealed Within.
-
. Mediator - YAHSHUA did always exist in YAHWEH, as an extension of YAHWEH's Spirit, but not as a separate person, not even side by side.
-
* . Laconic - No one can come to me except YAHWEH who has sent me draw him. - The Message's Transcription: You're not in charge here. YAHWEH who sent me is in charge. He draws people to me; that's the only way you'll ever come. [otherwise, you're outta here]
-
* . Simultaneous - I AM the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to YAHWEH[I AM] except through me. - The Message's Paraphrased Transcription: "I am the Road, also the Truth, also the Life. No one gets to the Begetter apart from me. If you really knew me, you would know my Bearer as well. - Anyone who has seen me has seen the Begetter who has sent me. Don't you understand that I AM in the Begetter, and that the Begetter is in me?
-
7. Permanence - I and YAHWEH are ONE
-
Begetter \Be*get"ter\, n.
One who begets; a father.
[1913 Webster]
begetter - WordNet (r) 2.0 (August 2003) :
begetter
n : a male parent (also used as a term of address to your
father); "his father was born in Atlanta" [syn: father,
male parent] [ant: mother]
.
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : remove the word "that"
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : remove the word "of"
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : He said, instead of He was ..ing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jessie, posted 05-18-2006 7:29 PM jessie has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 13 of 15 (313956)
05-20-2006 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by goldenlightArchangel
05-18-2006 10:23 AM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
It means that a 'Begotton' son is not a physical 'begotton'. It is a terminology meaning that someone has become exaulted by god.
In addition, the place where 'begotten son' in John is used, the greek is just as easily translated at 'Beloved son' not 'begotten son'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-18-2006 10:23 AM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-20-2006 8:15 PM ramoss has not replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 14 of 15 (313995)
05-20-2006 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ramoss
05-20-2006 4:33 PM


Re: The obscure purpose behind the Trinity's doctrine
Hi Ramoss,
I believe that your belief is to be taken into consideration, because I don't believe that "believers" are insane, even when they ask the drunk ones to accept "jesus" and do not even care if their "jesus" will accept a stinky drunk which they just found in the streets.
[at least they should wait until the poor person becomes sober first..]
Anyway, I totally agree on this one:
Ramoss writes:
the place where 'begotten son' in John is used, the greek is just as easily translated at 'Beloved son' not 'begotten son'.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ramoss, posted 05-20-2006 4:33 PM ramoss has not replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1182 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 15 of 15 (319813)
06-09-2006 11:26 PM


Questions which only require a YES or NO answer
-
Hi,
Looking for a YES or NO answer to the following questions,
-
When the Scripture of the Truth attests that YAHSHUA came out of YAHWEH,
-
1st. - Does it mean that it was a “spirit of man” that came out of YAHWEH?
-
2nd. - Does it mean that it was the “SPIRIT of KADHISH[Holiness]” that came out of YAHWEH?
-
3rd. - Does it mean that it was something other than SPIRIT that came out of YAHWEH?
-
This might help in response to the questions:
YAHWEH is Spirit[Living Glittering Light] that glitters in the heavens and in an Eternal and Celestial orbit.
YAHSHUA came out of YAHWEH. - Eternal Words: I came out from YAHWEH and came into the world; again, I leave the world and go back to YAHWEH.
Visualize the word “again” above,
Would the word “again” be utilized if YAHSHUA was not an Extension of YAHWEH’s Spirit, like the extension of an only vine, and like when the branches of an only fig tree has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves?
When the theologies of this world say he came into the world with “his own spirit”, are they automatically saying that He is a “separate being”, (Spiritually and INWARDLY), or a “separate person” (Spiritually and INWARDLY)?
In other words, isn't that like saying that YAHSHUA is another vine, rather than an extension of the same vine, and like another fig tree, rather than an extension of tender leaves that are put forth from an only fig tree?
-
The vine supports the branches, feeds life into them, and just as a vine bears feeble branches, and holds them more than the branches hold the vine;
Also the Vine[I AM/YAHWEH] bears its own Extension through which all the feeble branches are supported.
-

  
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