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Author
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Topic: Belief Statement - jar
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 55 of 300 (323999)
06-20-2006 5:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by iano
06-20-2006 5:00 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
iano writes: If it were possible that Jesus was a myth told around campfires, is it equally possible that love God and love you neighbour is also a myth. Why is this particularity true when/if Jesus isn't? Because Love GOD and love others as you love yourself is still the best possible message for building a life for you and for all around you. It doesn't matter if it is myth, folktale or old wives tale, the message is still true. It really is as simple as that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:00 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 56 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:19 PM | | jar has replied | | | Message 57 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:20 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 58 of 300 (324014)
06-20-2006 5:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 56 by iano
06-20-2006 5:19 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
This presupposes that that is Gods aim. Is it possible that that is a subjective notion born out of a personal philosopy as to how best the world should work. God in your own image as it were? How does one find out whether this actually springs from God The point is it does not matter. Love GOD and love others as you love yourself is true regardless of the source.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:19 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 61 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:40 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 60 of 300 (324020)
06-20-2006 5:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 57 by Brian
06-20-2006 5:20 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
And your point is? I'm sorry but that is just so silly a post. Of course that is not Christianity. Who ever said it was? It is, however, the message of GOD and of Christianity. To be a Christian, as opposed to being a member of some other religion, requires that the person accept certain minimal beliefs. I have said that I am a cradle Creedal Christian, member of the Episcopal Church, part of the Anglican Communion. But that is club membership. It is not me. It is not the sum of my beliefs. Most certainly, it is not GOD.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:20 PM | | Brian has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 63 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:46 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 62 of 300 (324024)
06-20-2006 5:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by iano
06-20-2006 5:40 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
It works.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:40 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 64 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:49 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 65 of 300 (324037)
06-20-2006 5:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by Brian
06-20-2006 5:46 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
Point is, you are calling yourself a xian. Finally, a correct statement. Yes, I am a Christian.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:46 PM | | Brian has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 77 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 4:39 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 66 of 300 (324039)
06-20-2006 5:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by iano
06-20-2006 5:49 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
For who? You? Or those who don't think it works for them? WHAT?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:49 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 69 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:06 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 70 of 300 (324058)
06-20-2006 6:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 69 by iano
06-20-2006 6:06 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
What?
"it works". It works for who? You? Presumably the answer here is yes. But presumably it cannot work for people who find that such a notion doesn't at all work for them. Doesn't that make this truth subjective? What in the world are you talking about.
But presumably it cannot work for people who find that such a notion doesn't at all work for them. Are you saying that loving others as you love yourself will not work for those who do not love others as they love themselves? No shit Sherlock.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 69 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:06 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:23 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 72 of 300 (324066)
06-20-2006 6:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 71 by iano
06-20-2006 6:23 PM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
a) what it is about the statement which makes it work. When you try to treat others as you would like to be treated, everybody wins.
b) how something working makes it true? My lightswitch works - does that make it true? ROTFLMAO. It makes it work. Who cares if it is TRUE. That may well be the dumbest question I have EVER seen asked.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:23 PM | | iano has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 74 of 300 (324158)
06-20-2006 11:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 73 by GDR
06-20-2006 11:27 PM
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Re: Valid christian teaching?
Just read through Matthew 23, (the sheep and the goats). Maybe Mat 25? Also note in that ALL the world is gathered. Not just Jews, not just Christians, not just believers. If you read it, the Goats are surprised they are rejected while the Sheep are surprised they are accepted. Now it would seem that a Non-Believer would not expect to be accepted by Jesus, where a believer might.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by GDR, posted 06-20-2006 11:27 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 75 by GDR, posted 06-21-2006 1:23 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 86 of 300 (324298)
06-21-2006 9:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 80 by iano
06-21-2006 5:39 AM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
That is a subjective opinion surely, not something about which one could say "it is true". True for you perhaps? And I cannot say that something subjective is true? This is your whole point?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 5:39 AM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 87 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 9:59 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 88 of 300 (324309)
06-21-2006 10:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 87 by iano
06-21-2006 9:59 AM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
I believe that this thread began with a Belief Statement. That is a personal story of my personal beliefs and how they formed. It is but a snapshot of where I am in an ongoing journey. It can never be more than the account, short and by necessity incomplete, of my own trip so far.
You can say that in your opinion something is true. I can never say more than that. I cannot say that anything is absolutely true with the exception of those mundane things like "it's absolutely true I had Reunion Island Breakfast Blend coffee as the first cup of coffee today."
Subjectively, its not true that Jesus existed and subjectively true that Love God/others works for you. What?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 9:59 AM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 10:27 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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On what the Great Sacrifice was.
While it's true that a whole thread could be devoted to the issue of whether Jesus crucifixion was some payment for our sins, and that this thread is not the place to really hash that out, as part of my personal belief statement I think it is worthwhile to at least cover what it is I believe about that. I do not see the crucifixion itself as some great payment for our sins. Afterall, there were at least two other people crucified the very same day and very same place as Jesus. In addition it would be an act of GOD paying Himself with Himself for something He was capable of doing even without payment. The crucifixion is part of the story of Jesus' life, but I believe that He really was human during His time here with us before His death, and so He was going to die. For me, the great significance is that GOD became Man, to live among us, as one of us, with all of the limitations and constraints of being human. Jesus very life and presence is the Great Sacrifice and it was to bring us the message that we all do start off saved. We do not start off sinners, we do not start off damned, we do not suffer from original sin, we are not Fallen, we are loved. GOD became Man, and that is the Sacrifice. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven. Two parts. GOD came down to teach us how to best live and to show us that we really are expected to live up to those charges He has given us. This is why when asked about what was really important He specifically chooses the Two Great Commandments. He goes on to add "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." When asked those questions he could have easily said "Worship Me", but He doesn't. There is nothing in those two related to professing faith, to worship, even related to belief, instead it is a call and command to action. Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. It really is as simple as that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 94 of 300 (324339)
06-21-2006 10:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 89 by iano
06-21-2006 10:27 AM
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Re: Jesus Divinity
Jesus never existed as God incarnate in your opinion. That is not, in your opinion true. You look at the evidence and conclude "No" - a mere sheep herder myth Please point out where I have said that? Once again you are misrepresenting what I have said.
You look at "Love God/love your neighbour" and conlude "true' in your opinion. True because it works for you - no matter who wrote the words. No, not true, and a point I have addressed many times. Love GOd and love others as you love yourself. The second part also has two requirements. You must first love yourself, know yourself, be honest about yourself. Only once you understand yourself can you love others. Is that (as included in my explanation) true? Yes. In my opinion.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 10:27 AM | | iano has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 97 of 300 (324365)
06-21-2006 11:26 AM
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Just for the fun of it.
In my story I mention going off to a boarding school. For any who might want to visit, you can see it here, right next to the Route 25 symbol. If you follow Falls Road north just around the bend you will see the gate, and the gatehouses. There has been lots of construction since I was there and it is no longer a boarding school, but the buildings I mentioned are still there. You can see some of the other masters houses that were there when I was in the trees to the right (east) of the entrance, the stables also east of the driveway and the mansion just below the circle with the big oaks. The dorm was the tiny building on the northwest side of the mansion. Edited by jar, : add better location id
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: On what the Great Sacrifice was.
If we start off saved, then what are we being salvaged from? The sins we choose aftarwards? Why would we need salvation if we are already saved? We are being told that we will be judged based on what we do. There is no "Get Outta Hell Free" card. The point is that I do not believe we start off damned as many Christians do.
Some might take the call to love as a request for worship, but when asked 'how' we love god, Jesus gave a fine explanation in Matt25, agree? Its about what you do in how you treat others, yeah? Yup, and how you treat yourself. Notice that in that part of Matthew 25 there is no direct mention of belief, and the only indirect mention is in regards to the Goats. So folk take the position that only the followers of Jesus are included in the passage, but that is not what it says, and does not make sense to me just from reading it. In the passage it says ALL the world is gathered, all nations. But there is IMHO and even clearer indication that it is not followers who are gathered, but everybody. The Sheep are shocked that they are accepted. If the Sheep had been followers, Christians, then why would they be surprised? Remember, you are expected to be honest about yourself too. That means the good and the bad parts. But GOD also knows that we are human, that we will screw up. Remember part of the Confirmation Service?
Bishop: Will you persevere in resisting evil, and, whenever you fall into sin, repent and return to the Lord? People: I will, with God's help. Bishop: Will you proclaim by word and example the Good News of God in Christ? People: I will, with God's help. Bishop: Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself? People: I will, with God's help. Bishop: Will you strive for justice and peace among all people, and respect the dignity of every human being? People: I will, with God's help. Look at the terms, they are all action words, things that you do. Persevere, strive, seek, return, repent, proclaim, respect; things you can do. It acknowledges that there will be many times you will fail, but charges you to try.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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