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Author | Topic: Christian Pride. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: If there is an area in which I will admit complete and utter defeat it is my inability to nail jelly to a wall. If you'd learn the proper use for jelly, you wouldn't have that problem. One of it's uses is for people who aren't able to handle more substantial food. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
you'd learn the proper use for jelly, you wouldn't have that problem. One of it's uses is for people who aren't able to handle more substantial food.
That of course, depends on what kind of Jelly you are talking about.
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
iano writes: Write that down: God is the one who brings you to that point - you don't have to 'get humble' for as you are you cannot do that. And he knows it - that's why he is the one who attempts to bring you to that point. Legend writes: so, how will I know when I reach that point ? iano writes: You'll know. If you don't you haven't. There is litte point in trying to put it into words - words are too limited so, to recap, God will 'humble' me enough for me to accept him and I'll know when I'm humble enough as a Christian because that's the point when I will accept him. So basically you're implying that my 'pride' comes simply from the fact that I'm an atheist, because you obviously associate humility with being a Christian. To you humility and pride have nothing to do with how you behave but depend entirely on your acceptance of the Christian God. Yet another example of Christian word mangling, where everyday words lose their meaning when used in relation to faith / christianity. "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
iano writes: How many times must you be told? If you are saved it is because his actions proved effectual - they resulted in you being saved. If not it is because they didn't. What makes his actions ineffectual is your rejection of his attempt to save you. I love it when Christians make God sound like an impotent third-party participant. Kind of contradicts their whole doctrine. save me from whom Ian? who's God trying to save me from ? you're making it sound as if somebody pushed me down a cliff and there's God passing by and he's offering his hand for me to take and get saved or not take and fall down the cliff. Ofcourse the Bible tells us that it's God himself who pushed us down the cliff in the first place and then he's pretending he's trying to save us while appearing just and loving in the process.
iano writes: Your protests could be summed up in the phrase "I am not guilty". Your ducking and diving all over the place so as to arrive at this conclusion.......Funny, but in essence, being saved involved you admitting your guilt to him. You can't of course - unless he brings you, convinces you, that you are indeed guilty before him ahh..Paul's self-hating theology in all its sick majesty. Guilty of what Ian? guilty of being born ? yes, we all are. Is it our fault ? Not according to Jesus, he said noone is perfect, only God, but do good and you will gain life (Matt 19:17) Don't punish yourself for Paul's self-loathing and guilt complex. "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
nemesis_juggernaut writes: But someone who thinks they have all the answers is a dangerous person to themselves and to society. They always have some sort of justification for why they are right, they are never in the wrong, their views are always correct and if you don't see eye to eye with them, its somehow your fault. They're called, "Sociopaths." why, thank you I couldn't have said it better myself. Ian, are you reading this ? I think nemesis is calling you names! "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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iano Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
save me from whom Ian? who's God trying to save me from ? Gods love wants to save you from his wrath.
you're making it sound as if somebody pushed me down a cliff and there's God passing by and he's offering his hand for me to take and get saved or not take and fall down the cliff. You were born with a sinful nature - that is why you sin. You got that nature from Adam (I won't discuss Adams choice again - we've been around that block on that one, you and me. If you choose to reject that conclusion then fine - it's your perogative). God doesn't just offer a hand - he grasps at you and clutches at you. It's for you to shake him off. It is your God-given right.
Of course, the Bible tells us that it's God himself who pushed us down the cliff in the first place and then he's pretending he's trying to save us while appearing just and loving in the process. Like I say, that's done and dusted. It starts with Adam and progresses from there. No 'Adam etc' then no need for the gospel - your sinful nature would be Gods fault and it would be unjust to punish you for something he did. There would be no need for the gospel - thus little reason to talk about it. Which you and me are doing. You can see the problem: you can't side step Adam and go on to talk about the gospel in any meaningful way. So why bother?
ahh..Paul's self-hating theology in all its sick majesty. Guilty of what Ian? guilty of being born ? yes, we all are. Is it our fault ? Not according to Jesus, he said no one is perfect, only God, but do good and you will gain life (Matt 19:17) I would be interested in how it is you decide to take Matthews testimony as...er...gospel and not Pauls. Matthew gave testimony about Jesus. Paul says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials in the opening lines of Romans. You 'believe' what Matthew says but not Paul. Why is that? Mini Bible Study:
quote: The advice is "obey". Not "try to obey". If you fail to carry out a commandment (as I'm sure you, like me, will admit to - many times a day) then patently you are not obeying the commandments and logically, you will not reap that which is on offer. This is all you can extract from the verse you quoted. If you want to form a "trying a stairway to heaven" doctrine you will have to try a little harder than this... It is a deluded man indeed who doesn't come to the conclusion "I cannot follow this advice". And on realising he cannot do this he should conclude "I cannot have life". And on concluding this (given the Bibles description of the environment of Hell - however you read the symbolism and the environment of Heaven - however you read that symbolism) the words "Crap! What do I do now?!" (or as Paul says at the end of Romans 7: "Oh wretched man that I am, who shall rescue me from this body of death?") should issue forth from his lips. If he is thinking straight that is... At that point the gospel stands ready and willing (for "God wants that NONE should perish"). Patently however, if a man doesn't conclude these things because he attempts instead to get around the problem (as friend Jar does) by inserting a 'try' on front of every command (on the basis of what precisely - I fail to understand) then the gospel sits there like an unopened gift. So long as man rejects the gospel (by clinging to other things to save him) he remains as he was born. Best not die that way is my advice to you. Edited by iano, : No reason given. Edited by iano, : No reason given. Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Sounds like the abusive husband who blames his wife for the beating he gives her. "You made me beat you. If you only loved me in the way I say you should I wouldn't have to hurt you."
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Actually, I'd say the people you describe above are more accurately called, "narcissists.", or in less extreme cases, they are just very insecure, neurotic people who cannot handle others being different from themselves. The main characteristic of sociopaths is their lack of ability to empathise with others.
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iano Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Sounds like the abusive husband who blames his wife for the beating he gives her. Of course it does. You don't get the fall and so conclude your own sin (for the sake of discussion) is someone elses fault. What's the technical description for someone who blames someone else for what they do?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: What's the technical description for someone who blames someone else for what they do? Fundie-god. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
iano writes: Gods love wants to save you from his wrath. that's a very scizophrenic God you got there ian! Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde pale into insignificance before your God.
iano writes: No 'Adam etc' then no need for the gospel - your sinful nature would be Gods fault and it would be unjust to punish you for something he did. yup, what's wrong with that? why does your God have to punish someone?
iano writes: There would be no need for the gospel - thus little reason to talk about it. Which you and me are doing. You can see the problem: you can't side step Adam and go on to talk about the gospel in any meaningful way. So why bother? why bother ? what about the life and teaching of Jesus ? You're accusing me of picking and choosing from the Bible yet you happily state that Jesus's life and his message are meaningless and un-worthy of discussion without the bolted-on theology of the Fall, original sin and self-loathing! and you call yourself a Christian ! "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
iano writes: I would be interested in how it is you decide to take Matthews testimony as...er...gospel and not Pauls. Matthew gave testimony about Jesus. Paul says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials in the opening lines of Romans. You 'believe' what Matthew says but not Paul. Why is that? I don't 'believe' either of them. I'm pointing out that what Paul is stating, Jesus doesn't even bother to mention and often contradicts. Assuming that Matthew's testimony is true, whose word am I going to accept, Paul's or Jesus's ?
iano writes: Paul says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials in the opening lines of Romans. Joseph Smith says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials in the opening lines of BoM. Why don't you believe him too ? Reverend Moon says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials on a piece of paper he holds in his pocket. Why don't you believe him too ? Edited by Legend, : spelling "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Sounds like the abusive husband who blames his wife for the beating he gives her. quote: OK, so you now understand that you have been describing your god as similar to a violent, abusive man with control and anger issues.
quote: I thought that baptism took care of original sin? Don't pretty much all of the Christian sects have some kind of ritual cleansing of sin? But anyway, I "get" the Fall, ian. All this means is that your God is so petty that he would curse all of humanity for the actions of two people that have nothing to do with anybody else. Punishing children for the actions of their parents is beyond unfair. Your interpretation of the Fall story makes your God out to be nothing better than a tyranical despot. As I've noted before, your God seems to be fraught with every human weakness and character flaw and has the most fragile ego I have ever heard described.
quote: Can't beat Ringo's response to this. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5020 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
hey rick, your screen name wouldn't mean "rick james bitch" would it? Excuse me? Did you have point to make?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Because Ian's God is an abusive, violent god with control and anger management issues. He's got a fragile ego that needs constant glorification and love but and you ever stop or do not care to give it to him, he will fly into a blind rage and beat you up.
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