Christian Pride.

If you'd learn the proper use for jelly, you wouldn't have that problem. One of it's uses is for people who aren't able to handle more substantial food.

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That of course, depends on what kind of Jelly you are talking about.

so, to recap, God will 'humble' me enough for me to accept him and I'll know when I'm humble enough as a Christian because that's the point when I will accept him.So basically you're implying that my 'pride' comes simply from the fact that I'm an atheist, because you obviously associate humility with being a Christian.To you humility and pride have nothing to do with how you behave but depend entirely on your acceptance of the Christian God.Yet another example of Christian word mangling, where everyday words lose their meaning when used in relation to faith / christianity.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

I love it when Christians make God sound like an impotent third-party participant. Kind of contradicts their whole doctrine.save me from whom Ian? who's God trying to save me from ?you're making it sound as if somebody pushed me down a cliff and there's God passing by and he's offering his hand for me to take and get saved or not take and fall down the cliff.Ofcourse the Bible tells us that it's God himself who pushed us down the cliff in the first place and then he's pretending he's trying to save us while appearing just and loving in the process. ahh..Paul's self-hating theology in all its sick majesty. Guilty of what Ian? guilty of being born ? yes, we all are. Is it our fault ?Not according to Jesus, he said noone is perfect, only God, but do good and you will gain life (Matt 19:17)Don't punish yourself for Paul's self-loathing and guilt complex.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

why, thank you I couldn't have said it better myself.Ian, are you reading this ? I think nemesis is calling you names!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Gods love wants to save you from his wrath. You were born with a sinful nature - that is why you sin. You got that nature from Adam (I won't discuss Adams choice again - we've been around that block on that one, you and me. If you choose to reject that conclusion then fine - it's your perogative). God doesn't just offer a hand - he grasps at you and clutches at you. It's for you to shake him off. It is your God-given right. Like I say, that's done and dusted. It starts with Adam and progresses from there. No 'Adam etc' then no need for the gospel - your sinful nature would be Gods fault and it would be unjust to punish you for something he did. There would be no need for the gospel - thus little reason to talk about it. Which you and me are doing. You can see the problem: you can't side step Adam and go on to talk about the gospel in any meaningful way. So why bother? I would be interested in how it is you decide to take Matthews testimony as...er...gospel and not Pauls. Matthew gave testimony about Jesus. Paul says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials in the opening lines of Romans. You 'believe' what Matthew says but not Paul. Why is that?Mini Bible Study:

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17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

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The advice is "obey". Not "try to obey". If you fail to carry out a commandment (as I'm sure you, like me, will admit to - many times a day) then patently you are not obeying the commandments and logically, you will not reap that which is on offer. This is all you can extract from the verse you quoted. If you want to form a "trying a stairway to heaven" doctrine you will have to try a little harder than this...It is a deluded man indeed who doesn't come to the conclusion "I cannot follow this advice". And on realising he cannot do this he should conclude "I cannot have life". And on concluding this (given the Bibles description of the environment of Hell - however you read the symbolism and the environment of Heaven - however you read that symbolism) the words "Crap! What do I do now?!" (or as Paul says at the end of Romans 7: "Oh wretched man that I am, who shall rescue me from this body of death?") should issue forth from his lips. If he is thinking straight that is...At that point the gospel stands ready and willing (for "God wants that NONE should perish"). Patently however, if a man doesn't conclude these things because he attempts instead to get around the problem (as friend Jar does) by inserting a 'try' on front of every command (on the basis of what precisely - I fail to understand) then the gospel sits there like an unopened gift. So long as man rejects the gospel (by clinging to other things to save him) he remains as he was born. Best not die that way is my advice to you. Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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Gods love wants to save you from his wrath.

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Sounds like the abusive husband who blames his wife for the beating he gives her."You made me beat you. If you only loved me in the way I say you should I wouldn't have to hurt you."

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But someone who thinks they have all the answers is a dangerous person to themselves and to society. They always have some sort of justification for why they are right, they are never in the wrong, their views are always correct and if you don't see eye to eye with them, its somehow your fault. They're called, "Sociopaths."

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Actually, I'd say the people you describe above are more accurately called, "narcissists.", or in less extreme cases, they are just very insecure, neurotic people who cannot handle others being different from themselves.The main characteristic of sociopaths is their lack of ability to empathise with others.

Of course it does. You don't get the fall and so conclude your own sin (for the sake of discussion) is someone elses fault. What's the technical description for someone who blames someone else for what they do?

Fundie-god.

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that's a very scizophrenic God you got there ian! Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde pale into insignificance before your God. yup, what's wrong with that? why does your God have to punish someone? why bother ? what about the life and teaching of Jesus ? You're accusing me of picking and choosing from the Bible yet you happily state that Jesus's life and his message are meaningless and un-worthy of discussion without the bolted-on theology of the Fall, original sin and self-loathing!and you call yourself a Christian !

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

I don't 'believe' either of them. I'm pointing out that what Paul is stating, Jesus doesn't even bother to mention and often contradicts.Assuming that Matthew's testimony is true, whose word am I going to accept, Paul's or Jesus's ? Joseph Smith says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials in the opening lines of BoM. Why don't you believe him too ?Reverend Moon says he was commissioned by God to say what it is he says - he presents his credentials on a piece of paper he holds in his pocket. Why don't you believe him too ?Edited by Legend, : spelling

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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Of course it does.

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OK, so you now understand that you have been describing your god as similar to a violent, abusive man with control and anger issues.

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You don't get the fall and so conclude your own sin (for the sake of discussion) is someone elses fault.

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I thought that baptism took care of original sin? Don't pretty much all of the Christian sects have some kind of ritual cleansing of sin?But anyway, I "get" the Fall, ian.All this means is that your God is so petty that he would curse all of humanity for the actions of two people that have nothing to do with anybody else.Punishing children for the actions of their parents is beyond unfair.Your interpretation of the Fall story makes your God out to be nothing better than a tyranical despot.As I've noted before, your God seems to be fraught with every human weakness and character flaw and has the most fragile ego I have ever heard described.

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What's the technical description for someone who blames someone else for what they do?

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Can't beat Ringo's response to this. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

Excuse me? Did you have point to make?

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why does your God have to punish someone?

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Because Ian's God is an abusive, violent god with control and anger management issues.He's got a fragile ego that needs constant glorification and love but and you ever stop or do not care to give it to him, he will fly into a blind rage and beat you up.