|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,929 Year: 4,186/9,624 Month: 1,057/974 Week: 16/368 Day: 16/11 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: What would your doctor say? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Robin, it is true that there is often pressure to identify with one group or another, especially in certain circumstances, such as in prison.
Do you think that scientists are so stupid and clueless that they don't know about this, and that they don't design experiments to minimize these kinds of things?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Uneducated people tend to be more religious, and, specifically in our country, Christian. quote: How do you know that they have never given it a moment's thought?
quote: Again, how do you know this?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Robin. The scientific question is, "What religious group do people in certain populations self-identifywith?" It doesn't matter how anybody else but the people being asked the question define "Buddhist" or "Jewish" or "Catholic", etc.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Again, how do you know this? quote: ...which means "just believe me cuz I know, cuz I just do." In other words, you "feel" that this is the case but you can't demonstrate it to be so. Right? Remember, the whole point of my bringing these stats into this discussion is that the claim was made that Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" along with believers, when the opposite is supported by the data. You have provided no rational argument for why we should discard all of the data.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: quote: Do you reject the self-reported data from the general population? Why or why not? Do you reject all self-reported data? Why or why not?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So why are the numbers of Christians and Atheists/Agnostics in prison fairly close to that found in the general population?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
So why are the numbers of Christians and Atheists/Agnostics in prison fairly close to that found in the general population? quote: Yes. Prison population-Christian: 83.761%General population-Christian:76.5% Prison population-Atheist:0.21%General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them) Very close, I'd say.
quote: Nothing proves anything. There is data. How do you explain the data? How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations? Why would there be such a similar proportion if people answer randomly or inaccurately most of the time?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
You mean like 95% of Ireland calling themselves Romans Catholic and in a population of 15000 where I live the Roman Catholic church gets maybe 150 attending on Sundays (average age over 50) quote: This is irrelevant to my point, FYI. The point I was challenging was that Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" just as much as believers due to their "low morals". This is not true, as the data shows.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations? quote: I never thought I'd have to gice a stats/math lesson to a teacher, but there's a first for everything, I suppose. Do you notice anything about the relative similarity between the proportions of the two groups in prison and the two groups in the general population? These two numbers are pretty similar:
Prison population-Christian: 83.761% General population-Christian:76.5% ..and these two numbers are pretty similar:
Prison population-Atheist:0.21% General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them) Why might we see this?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: But we DO need a survey to know if Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" just as much as believers do. When we look at the data, we see that they do not.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, you DO reject all data that is self-reported. So from now on, it's perfectly OK for me to insist that you are not actually an Atheist, is that correct? I am allowed to disregard your stated religious self-identification, correct, because it is ompossible for anyone to accurately report their own religion?
quote: Like I have already said, it doesn't matter what they act like. Behavior is irrelevant; it is only their own beliefs that are relevant. What is so difficult for you to understand about that? So why are the numbers of Christians and Atheists/Agnostics in prison fairly close to that found in the general population?
quote: Yes.
Prison population-Christian: 83.761% General population-Christian:76.5% Prison population-Atheist:0.21%General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them) Very close, I'd say.
quote: Nothing proves anything. There is data. How do you explain the data? Do you notice anything about the relative similarity between the proportions of the two groups in prison and the two groups in the general population? These two numbers are pretty similar:
Prison population-Christian: 83.761% General population-Christian:76.5% ..and these two numbers are pretty similar:
Prison population-Atheist:0.21% General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them) Why might we see this? Come on, robin, put on your thinking cap and stop being so belligerant. How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations? Why would there be such a similar proportion if people answer randomly or inaccurately most of the time? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OK, then answer the questions: How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations? Why would there be such a similar proportion if people answer randomly or inaccurately most of the time?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, the reason I include the 13% figure for the A/A's is because I have included those who don't call themselves A/A, nor do they consider themselves religious or spiritual. Those actually stating that they are A/A is very small, in either population. And besides, given the error margins in polling, .21% and 1% are indistinguishable.
quote: I was referring to the proportions of Christians and A/A's in the general population compared to that in the prison population. Taken generally, one can say in either case that the large majority are Christian, and a small minority is A/A. My point in bringing this up at all was because robin called all such data "worthless" because it was self-reported. I asked him to explain the general similarity of the results (lots and lots of Christians, tiny amount of A/A's) between to compared groups if self-reporting was so inaccurate and unreliable. Nothing from him yet except sullen, 5 word replies. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: A Christian is someone who calles themselves a Christian, as far as I'm concerned.
quote: Which numbers do not match?
quote: Social scientists did the ones I referenced, IIRC.
quote: I agree. However, asking someone's opinion about immigration is a bit different than asking about personal religious affiliation. The former is much more likely to change than the latter.
quote: Not all polling is flawed, and not all statistical analysis is untrustworthy. After all, stistical analysis is ubiquitous in all scientific work and if it was so flimsy and easily corrupted then the science-based technology that our western lives are so dependent upon wouldn't be so reliable. "Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!" - Ned Flanders "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, that's fraud. Just because this director cooked his numbers doesn't impact the usefullness of correctly conducted polling.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024