Spinoza Pantheism Defined

Hi RAZD... hope your feeling better. I have prayed for you.Thanks for the spell check on the Nambudiri Brahmin caste. I must say that Mr. Zacharius' lectures have had a profound effect on me.He studied Hiduism as a visting scholar at Cambridge. But was of course emersed in the culture until moving to Canda at age 20.
His CD lectures on the New Age and Pantheism have added to what little knowledge I had of the subject beyond my own flirting with the concepts in my teens and twenties. Three or four of my close friends growing up are pantheists of one form or another. They continue to live very morally 'progressive' lives, as I once did myself.It is funny to me, that we have to privatize our beliefs to get along now. What good can come from that in the long run? To be afraid to examine ourselves and allow others to help us question our assumptions.RAZD:Well, that is obvious... It all depends upon what people want does it not? Find the philosophy that suits you is the general concensus that I hear in our Western culture today. I just wonder... what about those who find the Arian Brotherhood a good suit for them to wear. Must we accept them?It becomes problamatic to apply consistently very quickly, and most self defeating.What astonishes me most, is that we are now encouraged, that in the name of peace, to believe that none of them are exclusively true. We are told that the truth, is that they are only beliefs.So does that mean we need to find 'the illusion' that best suits us? That makes no sense to me. Why would we want to put on an illusion if we know it is such? Are our assumptions that vacant?Does anyone ever stop to question if that premise (that there is no truth) is true? Because if it is, then it is itself only a belief and an illusion that is worn to defend against reality. Isn't that the 'fig leaves' of Genesis? The behemoth hiding among the reeds and Lotus plants in the book of Job?So what is the truth? That may be difficult to say...But we can know what it is not...It is not the idea that tells us that it does not exist. Ideas that don't exist do not speak to us at all. And if they do, then they exist, and are deceptive.There can be no such thing as nothing... because if there was, it will never cross our minds. What we call nothing is 'the dark'. And it is the Devil who would love to stay there and not be seen.It is the motive which allows us to believe a lie without our knowledge. And the scary thing is... We like it that way.It is madness.

---

Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

I don't know if we have a young earth or not. I tend to think we do. I find science more and more lacking of objectivity. All of the stuff I was brainwashed with in school and on the Discovery channel and National Geographic, is now challenged by much evidence that is mysteriously not fed to the public...An atheist is not 'objective'. They have an agenda. Their agenda is to find a way to explain these things without a need for a creator. And the evidence is plentiful enough to for a man to believe just about anything with ample evidence. I can provide a debate between two scientists that I became aware of through Ravi, that proves this point. I will have to supply it in a follow up reply, as I have to find the source. I'll get on it!How do you explain Alister Mcgrath at Oxford, and John Polkinghorne at Cambridge? These men are some of the most profound scientific minds in the world, yet are devout Christians. They have a very rational faith. A faith that the Bible reccomends btw, and that the church had abandoned ergo Emanuel Kant. Well then with all due respect (and I mean that) your beliefs are convoluted. How can you know that you can't know? Or... why would you choose to believe that you can't?And the answer is in discovering the motivation for wanting to believe such an obvious contradiction... My point precisely...I don't claim to know something I don't. But you do I'm afraid. I claim to know something I do know. And that is the difference.Did you know that Jesus spoke on this very issue?John 3:10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."There is no hiding behind contradictions, unless you want to believe in them. You have that right. But it will cost you your intellectual honesty. And I know... and can show why...Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

---

Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.